emscee
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my norah questions

Posted about 5 years ago
Does the problem some people have with Norah Jones stem from her rapid ascension and the fact (beyond her control) that she became the poster girl for the Starbucksization of pop music?I've been playing her new album this morning, and I'm a little embarrassed to admit how much I like it, because it just seems so uncool, but it strikes me that if she hadn't become this multi-platinum phenom, the cool kids would be talking up this talented, pretty, unassuming, NYC-based singer who plays around the clubs and happens to be Ravi Shankar's daughter, and how come she can't get signed, because even though she doesn't write commercial, Z100-ish pop songs, she's awfully good, and she's kind of jazzy, but also has country influences...Did her success damage her cred? Is she strictly latte-pop? Shouldn't music fans be celebrating her non-Fergie/Gwenishness? Am I crazy to be slightly smitten by the modest pleasures of her new album?
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Comments (27)

  1. ivylander
    ivylander says I think you hit upon the key phrase: "modest pleasures." By coincidence, I heard "Don't Know Why" last night while grocery shopping (telling enough in itself) and remembered what a very good singer she is. But the song itself, while pleasant and well-constructed, is finally pretty slight. That's pretty much how I felt about the first CD as a whole, and while I do not think ill of her I've not been motivated to seek out anything else she has done. It does seem a shame that she has punished for being a little too easy on the ears. That shouldn't be an automatic red card, just as abrasiveness should nto be considered de facto evidence of brutal honesty.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  2. Scarlett Echo
    Scarlett Echo says Norah's music is certainly "safe" and has that mainstream appeal but I'm not going to dismiss her because of that. Her beautiful voice has a place in my cd collection. It might not be the most exciting music I own but there are times when you need that music that tames the wild beast and she's in that category for me. About the "coolness" factor? Screw that. To each his/her own.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  3. amber
    amber says I've just about had it with people dis'ing the "mainstream". Now, we all want to be edgy but if it makes you smile or cry or sigh its great. Grocery stores and elevators need music too and shouldn't we be happy its not all Neil Diamond and Barry Manilow and Bette Midler? As a Death Cab fan, I tire rapidly with these people who think music has to be angry and obsquire to be worthy. Hell, even the Wiggles have thier place! Be proud of your musical tastes because they are yours. Just don't tell anyone I listen to Korn when I workout, ok?
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  4. Daviso
    Daviso says Hot pic sorta looks like Jolie. She is a great artist and an underdog and I'll take her any day over any dumb blonde's candy ass pop, although christina does have a nice set of pipes and other assets but i don't take them seriously. I put norah in the Julian Hatfield, Liz Phair and Cat Power Category.

    Now Vote in this best of 2006 poll. It's good one. Thanks, _D

    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  5. alowishus
    alowishus says I have to agree, she has taken some heat. However I find her a very great artist with a lot of talent. Her songs are simple, mellow, and very soothing. A type that everyone needs at some point. I listened to her first album over and over and let me tell you being a guy in college at the time I took a lot of crap from my friends for that. You just have to take the music you like and tell everyone one else to f off.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  6. morgannels
    morgannels says You seem to be conflating two different questions here. One question is whether or not she's cool or has "cred" or whatever. You'll have to ask Chuck Klosterman about that, though I don't know quite what you're going to do with the answer. The other, entirely unrelated question is whether or not the music is good. That's subjective, sure, but there's no reason you can't decide that for yourself, which it sounds to me like you've already done. And having done so, why do you feel the need to go back and try to answer the first question? Also, I don't know that I agree that her ascension was entirely "beyond her control." She has certainly complied with it, and she hasn't done any of the luncatic things someone her age could easily do to sabotage such an ascension (see Nellie McKay or Fiona Apple for examples of very talented singers who could sell as many records as Norah, but won't, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in either case).
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  7. emscee
    emscee says While Norah didn't throw any tantrums, or engage in any (Nellie, Fiona, Madeline-esque) acts of "sabotage" (your word), she did ask Blue Note to try and slow the marketing wheels down on her first album. She even, naively, requested that they not ship anymore CDs (like THAT might ever happen). I genuinely believe that the hype made her uncomfortable. My first question isn't really about whether I "should" like her or not (I've already resolved that, way before her debut album came out), but about the hazards of public perception. I do think some people who really "would" like her have decided not to because she's become so ubiquitous, and associated with a a brand of mainstream pop music. I have no idea, or interest in, what Klosterman might think, but I do have a general interest in the trajectory of musical careers, and how success and image intersect.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  8. justcheez
    justcheez says im sorry, but i just dont like her music cos its *really really* bland. everytime i hear it, i feel like 'this music is so pleasant and inoffensive that i'm offended by it anti-confrontational stance. not that i'm being harsh to you or anything like that. i tend to get like that at a lot of things. i'm such an angry young man. :-(
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  9. B42
    B42 says I love her music, and I love this post! "Starbucksization of pop music?Is she strictly latte-pop? ", Make mine a Venti Mogcha with whipped cream and real milk! sign me unashamed and Mog more
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  10. Dave
    Dave says Nothing wrong with restraint which is what Norah Jones always shows. She's a class act in my book and I consider it pure coincidence and luck that's she has become so popular.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  11. Bryan
    Bryan says There was a great article in last week's NYTimes on her...I think it will shed some light on your questions/concerns. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/arts/music/21pare.html
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  12. MilesTrane
    MilesTrane says this is a great post / thread. i for one don't find myself gravitating towards her music (ever) but yet I respect her musicality, how she treats the musicians in her circle, how she shows respect for others (i respect that she respects). . . . she has helped a lot of those around her. her music isn't really for me but i do understand how it touches so many
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  13. jenipop
    jenipop says Interesting. I wasn't aware of Jones's attempts at tamping down Blue Note's saturation but it reads true (especially after her gracious, repeat trips to the Grammy stage for her much lauded debut that year). While I haven't heard anything that didn't appear on that same album - nor have I made any effort - I am intrigued by your question(s). How to explain the apparently cordoned-off popularity - you claim "Starbucksization" - of a contemporary vocalist-pianist who had the good sense (not that she isn't talented) to surround herself at the start with well regarded jazz musicians-cum-chief songwriters to accentuate her fluent, not just jazz, stylings (Blue Note categorized the debut as "jazz-informed" rather than committing itself to a strict, representation of the genre)? I can't comment on the "ubiquity," only to say that her "Don't Know Why" was in heavy rotation on the workplace's satellite radio network a few years ago but not any longer. But I think her apartness has more to do with how readily the amorphous - and often pallid - Adult Alternative niche absorbed Jones's presence. Not that it isn't good music, either. I remember when that cafe-apprised selfsameness came about, Tanita Tikaram, Sam Phillips and Julia Fordham included. While my '90s selection strays from the piano-component, it does illustrate how an emerging talent can be easily subsumed by Adult Alternative (separating the artist from a prospective and eager audience not given over to everything the category implies). Know if it were Amy Winehouse in the same awkward embrace, this thread would be uncontainable. One question: What do you mean by "signed"? Jones became part of the Blue Note roster in 2001. Thanks for the post and enjoy the new album.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  14. emscee
    emscee says jenipop: I was hypothesizing about what the response to her might have been if she had been first noticed as an unsigned artist...if she were a singer-musician making the rounds in NYC without a record deal, or had put out an indie CD rather than a major-label debut...Sorry if that wasn't clear.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  15. chucky
    chucky says I honestly don't know but it's a good question.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  16. jenipop
    jenipop says emscee: Apologies, it's perfectly clear at the top there of course. I think I *need* some more coffee. Nice round of responses, thanks for a thinking Saturday.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  17. lemontwist
    lemontwist says Interesting thought experiment. I don't personally care for her music, but I usually don't take into consideration if my indie/street/whatever cred will be shot to hell if I listen to a particular artist. You like what you like! :)
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  18. Sturgell
    Sturgell says Ms. Norah Jones is puur-ty.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  19. ABrokenPeople
    ABrokenPeople says You should also check out The Little Willies (A Country/jazz band she did with Richard Julian) and there are three cds she did with the Peter Malick Band. Very good. You can also find some other music she's done with other bands. She was also on one of Ryan Adams cds.
    Permalink posted 01/27/2007
  20. emscee
    emscee says Here's an example of what I'm talking about, from the new GQ: "Nothing goes better with a half-caf Venti mocha and a turquoise iPod mini than Not Too Late, the new album from the hard-to-hate-even-if-we-really-want-to-hate-her Norah Jones." What kind of snide nonsense is that? Why would anyone want to hate her, and be disappointed that they don't?
    Permalink posted 01/28/2007
  21. really91
    really91 says I've always liked Norah Jones, and I think one of the reasons is the fact that she's so decidedly not "cool." It's irritating to see people who have serious musical chops (you know who else? John Mayer) being dismissed by hipster assholes as not having any musical "cred" just because their albums have had some mainstream appeal. But what I like about Norah in particular, besides the fact that she's such an unlikely success, is how little she seems to care. She's just taking a chill approach, doing her own thing (collaborating with a lot of amazing artists along the way), and that is cool. I think her career will be viewed in a very different way in 50 years or so. Glad you like the new album - I'm looking forward to it.
    Permalink posted 01/29/2007
  22. ivylander
    ivylander says On the other hand, what kind of lemming would make a musical buying decision based on GQ, fer God's sake? Talk about credibility problems....
    Permalink posted 01/29/2007
  23. samuraijohnny
    samuraijohnny says My 2 cents: Don't overthink Norah, or any music for that matter. Music you like is music you like, that's it. It doesn't matter what style, circumstances, or even who the artist is. I agree with really91 in that Norah and John have major chops and people tend to be persuaded too much to either really like them or really hate them because of what the "mainstream" does to expose (or overexpose) them. That's why I don't listen to radio or watch any music tv regularly. If I hear something I like, I find out who it is and get their album, then listen on my own time and make my own judgements. I also read reviews to see if people have the same observations as I do, but I don't let reviews change the fact that I like the music I listen too. To me, Norah is a breath of fresh air among artists her age. She can sing, she can write music, and she doesn't care what her image is like as long as people like her as a musician (which she is). And, I LIKE her music. The first album was very smooth, the second album was funkier, and I can't wait to hear what the third album is like.
    Permalink posted 01/29/2007
  24. Anonymous says well, good observations. starbucks is stupid, that's why i go ther all the tim e. but yes, she needs to be unsigned. and i've always been of the mind that NO ARTIST can truly be victimized by a label based on the way they are sold... if they didn't like success, all they had to do is stop doing interviews, stop- making videos, stop all promotion, get kicked off yr label and start from scratch. neil young did it. many have done it. nirvana was completely dishonest about that, pretty much every major label band is dishonest about how much of their promotion is their fault... that's what artists do, they move on. so no, i'm not interested in norah jones at all, tho i liked her at first (for a sec).. i wuld rather listen to hope sandoval and the warm inventions. if anything,
    Permalink posted 01/30/2007
  25. Jess Horrible
    Jess Horrible says i gotta agree with the crowd here, and say that it's not norah jones' lack of musicianship... it's that she doesn't have an overwhelming amount of creativity. very safe, very pleasant.
    Permalink posted 01/31/2007
  26. River Lethe
    River Lethe says Somehow missed this post until I saw it in the MOG Gazette. . . It's interesting that John Mayer came up, because I was going to bring it up myself. They're both clearly very talented musicians, but I just don't get it. Neither of them really do anything for me. I say, give 'em a few years and experience, and we'll probably get some really great songwriting out of them. Honestly, when I heard the first single off of her first album, I thought it was Bonnie Raitt. Before you dismiss that, go listen to I Can't Make You Love Me. I guess that set the stage for me to not care for her that much. But I also have to say, I agree with everyone about not worrying about what's cool or not. In my group of friends, they ALL love Norah, so I'm the uncool one.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2007
  27. teeter totter
    teeter totter says wow great post and great responses. the other day i was at work - doin massage to an burned cd compilation appropriately labled 'massage tunes'.... norah jones 'dont know why i didnt come' track plays right alongside coldplay, erykah badu, and sting. whoever made the cd (honestly not me) picked mostly contemporary mellow songs... my thoughts were turned to wonder what happened to her? i stopped hearing all the up and coming gobble-de-goop about here after that debut... which i didnt mind, cause im one to hold off on loving what "everyone else immediately stamps as cool" ie- pop/new music. hearing the comments all you smart and informed moggers have provided... i now understand why. i can respect that she didnt want to blow up. but honestly... i didnt even know she had a new album. maybe she toned it down a lil bit too much?? i wont die even if i never do hear it... but i also dont hate the idea of it.... i agree ALSO ALSO ALSO that she comes off very safe. ----> almost over-mature? i do remember thinking she reminded me of etta james on some kind of muscle relaxers.... (is that right? im speakin metaphorically) i mean specifically.... (just sittn here.. waitin for you to turn me on....) she definitely wasnt a 'get over here boy, and please me' type of gal, even though she's young and pretty. im glad she's nothin like beyonce etc etc etc.. bein in this profession of relaxation - i do look for slow and safe music... but my personal interests are usually on a little faster burning fuel... glad you posed these questions!! saved me a lot of work... *serendipity...*
    Permalink posted 02/06/2007

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