Guantanamo
In honor of President Obama's order to close the Guantanamo Prison, I repost this excellent song by Billy Gill.
In honor of President Obama's order to close the Guantanamo Prison, I repost this excellent song by Billy Gill.
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Comments (9)
As much fun as it is to portray poor souls locked away being brutalized by a power-mad gov't. I think President Obama is gonna find that most of those being held are being held justifiably. The vast majority are very bad men, rabid with hatred, & no, we are not the cause of their hatred. They hated us long before guantanamo, & they'll hate us no matter who is president or how we treat them....it doesn't matter.
The absurdity of closing guantanamo & the military trials is gonna come back to haunt the President.
It's a given that closing Guantanamo and dealing with the people there (some of whom are guilty and some of whom we did radicalize by our treatment of them) is going to be complicated. But in the grand scheme of things, the prison and the military trials were unsustainable and unconstitutional. Getting rid of them will ultimately be good for the US.
Did you like the song?
The song was alright....but didactic.
......some of whom are guilty and some of whom we did radicalize by our treatment of them)......
.......That's the narrative of the left. The reality is bound to be quite different.
I could dismiss your argument as easily as being the narrative of the right. In fact, its not a matter of debate that there were (and probably still are) people in Guantanamo who were completely innocent. The Bush Administration let dozens of them go. If they were all terrorists why did they do that?
I see the song as telling the story of one of those people, and I found the passion and expression in Gill's voice remarkable.
I love this song. It is a powerful and empathetic story, well told with heart and passion. It gets at a truth by weaving a tale, not didactically but with genuine compassion. It reminds me of old-fashioned protest songs. It tells a story about a specific event but has an appeal that goes beyond that simply due to its honesty. We could use more empathy in this world.
....Oh come on! As a song, its not too bad, as observed, its empathetic & very expressively sung (just short of Tom Russell, I'd say). With the recent revelation that Ali al-Shihri is back on the battlefield, in Yemen, that brings to 70 or so detainees released from Guantanamo who showed up to kill again.
Look, al I'm saying is that you presented here a pretty good song (which I can appreciate, and really he largely kept politics out of his narative) and the implication that you believe closing Guantanamo is "the right thing to do", and politically it is. But read the fine print of the executive order lad, and open yer eyes. There is a provision that those folks currently in Guantanamo who pose a serious threat or who are particularly loathesome but we cannot prosecute in open court without compromising the integrity of our inteligence agencies & lives on the ground all over the world, these folks will be turned over to other agencies in foreign countries for further interrogation. To be sure our friends and allies would never use loud music & bright lights & scary threats to get info, right?
And the detainees that land in American Jails? You believe its "the right thing to do" to give them all the rights enjoyed by the citizens of this country? I do not believe that. Whatever....if they end up in federal prison they will face solitary confinement for however long they are there, Most of them for life. ....and then, "oooo, that's cruel & unusual punishment" & the game goes on n on.
I'm not sure the percentage of people being held who are "totally innocent" but my money says its miniscule. Others being held have no country that will take them....they will almost certainly be killed if expatriated to their homeland.
There are so many interwoven thornbushes here......The song represents one point of view well...an individual chewed up by circumstance (with overtones of nefarious intent)
But when you pull back & look at the larger picture all the black & white disappears.
Well, I think we have a fundamental difference here so I will just leave you with these before it descends further into incivility: It is not OK that people have been held without charge or due process for years. It goes against everything our country is supposed to stand for, and I'm sorry there are people who think it is OK.
Also, your number are way overinflated, and don't call me "lad".
I'm sorry you took offense at "lad", its just the Irish in me, it was not meant in a condescending way at all. If you detected an uncivil attitude you're mistaken.
Yes, we have a fundamental difference here. And Ideas can be expressed without bile or anger, no?
You say my numbers are over-inflated. In what way? Do you know exactly how many prisoners are being held in Gauntanamo? Do you know the conditions they're being held in?
In my last comment I raised several very valid points, none of which you have addressed. Do you, for instance, favor putting these men in Federal Prisons to await trial? Do we leave them in solitary for their entire stay, or do we allow them to spew their bile & vitriol against all things western in an already simmering environment? If they are not worth prosecuting because it would expose too many secrets do we send them to face almost certain executution in their home countries? These questions & thousands of others demand answers & given that polls show 56% od Americans feel closing Gauntanamo is a mistake, answers must be forthcoming from our President.
with all due respect....
It was never my intention to get into the minutia of this issue here, I only wanted to celebrate the fact the United States is returning to its principles by closing the Guantanamo prison. Yes, I know that what to do with the prisoners is a complicated issue, and I said that. That is something for President Obama to figure out, within the constraints of the Constitution, but my own opinion is that our criminal justice system can handle these people.
To answer your questions: I don't know the current number of prisoners of the top of my head, at its height it was several hundred. Quite a few have been released without charge, which belies any claim that no innocent people have been picked up and sent to Guantanamo. How have they been treated? They have been held without charge or due process for over five years. This is against the Constitution, Federal Law, international law, the Geneva Conventions, and any reasonable idea of moral behavior. Some have likely been physically abused as well. Why are your numbers inflated? The Pentagon estimates only 18 confirmed released prisoners as now having ties to terrorist groups, with an additional 43 suspected. Even these numbers are likely high, as the Pentagon has incentive to exaggerate it. I do not know where you got your figure of 70, so I can't tell you how specifically it was over inflated, but it almost certainly is.
With that, I bid you Good Day, Sir.