I READ THE NEWS TODAY (oh boy!)...CHARLIE DON'T SURF........AND NEITHER DOES MOHAMMED
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............Robert Duvall, in total gung-ho oblivian, striding accross the beach like a lord of the manor, bullets flying, motar rounds landing, wrapped in his American bubble of certainty, convinced its his right to own the break 'cause..."Charlie Don't Surf". Determined, it is implied, to show Charlie what this place is for.
.....There can be no richer metaphor for America's ambivilent self-image since WWII. For all the ignorant fools who decry "American Imperialism", there hasn't been a good example of such since very late in the 1800's. We don't fight for land....we fight for freedom....we fight for oil......we fight perceived threats to our national security. Territory hasn't been our motive.
Apocolypse Now...in all it's sprawling impossibility, is the artistic re-creation of America's surreal view of other worlds, other cultures. We convince ourselves that "we all want the same thing"....& if they would but listen & learn, they would soon see the benefits of "The American Way". & They do. Our advances in so many fields of human endeavor, from medicine to technology, we have given the world much to admire. But its important to realize, especially right now, in this juncture in history, that though they may be admiring of us, they may have no desire to emulate us. That is....they may not want a Starbucks on every other corner where there isn't a MacDonalds. They may not want an entertainment industry the corrodes the moral fiber. They may not believe that all cultures are created equal.
.......and perhaps most difficult for the illuminatti of the left to wrap their superior reasoning around.....They often do believe that religion is worth fighting & killing & dying for. & of course when we point out the folly of such thinking, we endear ourselves to them all the more.
........We jumped into Viet Nam with at least the ghost of a goal....to Stop the Advancement of Communism.........And help a people to stay freedom. But we had no strategy...it was chaos. Ill-defined objectives to achieve un-defined outcomes.
.....Why are we in Afghanistan? Does anyone know? What are the objectives? Are we really determined to build a viable country where none has ever existed? Are we really determined to pour more troops into a vast waste-land without clear goals & objectives? It seems we are. This is not a war we should be fighting on this scale....we should withdraw troops from Afghanistan & send them back to Iraq. Our betrayal of our own goal & objectives in Iraq, our betrayal of the Iraqi people, will stand in shame alongside our betrayal of The Republic Of South Viet Nam. By leaving too soon, by weakening our presence. we may very well have snatched defeat from the jaws of Victory. But...Iraq was BUSH's War...hence BAD! Afghanistan is designed to show that the Dems are strong on national defense. & so they add troops....& they give the Russians the ability to hold our troops hostage while they.......stay tuned for that. Afghanistan is a hotbed of Al-Queda....its a spec-ops war all the way. We should be there in small lethal special operation units with one clear cut goal. Find the enemy...kill the enemy. Read'em their rights after they're dead.
....Thank u. i'm all vented for now
Comments (20)
and for you:
basically, I understand nothing of war. I suppose if someone leveled a weapon at me or the fam, it would be decision time. but, I can't get behind any ideaology in violence. it's all a smokescreen to keep us from raising our voices in unison. the old gaurd likes their power and prestige.
Oh my gosh...I agree..mostly. Not about sending troops back to Iraq though.
Still, you hit many nails on the head, especially why we fight. I also am not sure that a quest for land is the only way to define imperialism. But, I get your point nonetheless and I don't want to damage our state of agreement by fighting over a word.
Also, we haven't exactly left Iraq.
In many ways, I think all presidents get sold by the miltary on these adventures..the military we have is so good that it likes challanges and figuring out ways to get things done. They tell the civilian leadership they can complete almost any task, 'cause they believe they can.
Love Apocalypse Now..
"I understand nothing of war. I suppose if someone leveled a weapon at me or the fam, it would be decision time. but, I can't get behind any ideaology in violence. it's all a smokescreen to keep us from raising our voices in unison."
..........I don't know how to respond to this Scotty. In a way its a very self-centered & selfish world view. (You know me well enough to know i mean no offense so....) Lets explore the many levels of meaning buried within your supposition.
.....or lets not, whatever. Your utopian. Lennon-ian vision is a world where there's nothing to kill or die for. (god that would suck) . See.....if everyone ain't playin....than no one can play...Chirstian Dogma be damned.
.......If some clown is sittin by yonder tree....assembling a high-powered sniper rifle...& every few minutes he's tellin you that upon assembly...you're history. Whachoo gonna do? Talk him out of it? As he's slowly chewing on a live puppy?
...Me? I shoot the bastard.
Very confused here. I thought I knew why we were and are in Afghanistan. It was originally because the Taliban gave Osama bin Laden a base from which to operate a terrorist network tha killed 3,000-plus innocent Americans on Sept. 11, 2001. Then the reason for being in Afghanistan was that we declared vistory prematurely, diverted resources from a military action that had a reasonable purpose to one that did not, and allowed the Taliban to regain a foothold in Afghanistan. I thought it was also because we offered no economic alternative for the desperately poor Afghani people - except, ironically, that the opium production that had come to a halt during the years of Taliban control is now once again flourishing, because the security situation has deteriorated so dramatically (see note on diverting resources above). Opium production now reportedly accounts for more than half of the country's GDP. And it's worth noting that one of the major beneficiaries of this booming business appears to be Karzai's family.
Which leads to another thing I'm confused about. You seem to be saying that it is the "illuminati of the left" (not sure what that means, but it sounds sinister) are responsible for pushing our way of life upon a different culture that neither wants it or is unprepared for it. All this time I thought it was the Bush administration's desire to spread democracy and freedom throughout the Middle East that was leading to the kinds of wobbly, corrupt "democracies" in that part of the world.
And finally, I also thought Iraq was a bad war not because it was Bush's war, but because. like Vietnam, it was a war that served no clear purpose (getting a bad guy out of power is good, but if that were the sole criterion for conducting a war, the entire planet would have been engulfed in flames decades ago) and because the people who wanted it to happen lied to the American public in order to gain support for it.
But now that you seem to be telling me that, like everything else bad that happens, it's the left's fault. I am confused.
@ Cody B. Our presence is needed in Iraq & will be for awhile. We have convinced the average Iraq...u know? The millioins & millions of pple without arms & weapons of small scale destruction? The pple who just want to live in peace & raise their families as they see fit?...we have convinced them to bet on an adaptation of our governing process, & they have....in droves & droves. But there are still small groups of very well armed thugs holding the whole process hostage. By foolishly trumpeting our desire to make a quick exit we gave a clear signal to our targets that they need only lay low for a bit.....they did...we largely withdrew & trumpeted our leaving...the snakes come out. Iraq is a wobbly, ungainly, sometimes ugly little representative democracy...born amidst the disbelief of a skeptical world, including many Iraqi's themselves, but born it was, with the USA as midwife. As they mature...and they have been, nicely, they will be more & more able to deal with the security challenges that face them. A diminished American presence, right now, only encourages larger scale opperations by that small cadre of madmen united not by ideaology but by a rabid vicious fear of the kind of freedom democracy represents.
........We should have a large, a formidable presence...on our bases away from urban centers....just as reassurence to the PEOPLE of Iraq. Handy staging ground for the much smaller special operations units need in Afghanistan.
@Ivylander.......your assessment of events in Afghanistan while largely correct, is lacking one small, but crucial, detail...there was NO WAR to fight in Afghanistan. Its a country with small bands of armed thugs roaming a largely waste-land territory. The Taliban were only threats insofar as they gave aid & succor to the enemy, Al-Queda. When the Taliban fell it was like...what? Taking Topeka? Al-queda fled to the mountains, the Taliban died...but some escaped capture & death & found aid in ,....IRAQ.
....As for your ridiculous contention that intelligence was manipulated by (let me guess...Cheney? Rove? Oooh oooh Rush Limbaugh!). No i'm sorry...i agree...there was certain amount of deception leading up to the war.
...But let's go back to this......There is no country to rebuild in Afghanistan....our very large military footprint is as useless in this kind of war as keith richards is to a vampire. ........All kinds of mistakes are made during wartime, Bill, from top to bottom.
.....As for our cultural imperialism.....it speaks for itself. I do not assert nefarious intent or concerted effort to subvert. But many elements of our entertainment & recreational activities are seen as strange and pornographic in other parts of the world. Our glorification of self-centered instant gratification, our hedonistic lifestyles, is seen as wrong where the social fabric is woven from years & years of tradition that puts family & tribe & clans first & individuality way dead last.
You seem to be saying that it is the "illuminati of the left" (not sure what that means, but it sounds sinister) are responsible for pushing our way of life upon a different culture that neither wants it or is unprepared for it. All this time I thought it was the Bush administration's desire to spread democracy and freedom throughout the Middle East that was leading to the kinds of wobbly, corrupt "democracies" in that part of the world.
.....there's a world of difference between governance & culture
As usual, well said. Couldn't agree more.
I think mostly I agree with ivylander. I don't think we should bring back troops to Iraq that we have taken out. I'm not convinced that our large armies would stop the bands of thugs. Admittedly I'm not convinced that our large armies will stop the Taliban or Al-Qaeda either. I'm not very enthusiastic about President Karzai approving a law that critics say condones marital rape and I think that does have to do with the increase of power of the Taliban and other conservative religious groups. I'm not at all convinced that we should be in Afghanistan to impose our liberal sentiments but I think if the Taliban get back in power that is not that big of a reach that Al-Qaeda will also regain power. I don't agree with your statement with respect to the "illuminati of the left" being the cause of cultural imperialism. If I misunderstood your opinion, please advise. Businesses, large multi-national corporations, bring Western restaurants, movies and commercial products to these countries. Lots of the young people there pay money for it. I'm afraid I don't see this at all being due to the "left", just business, corporations and greed. The same greed exists in the US and causes huge numbers of problems.
@gsmattingly....you lay out the reasons for our disengagement from Afghanistan quite well & i agree with you. The government is corrupt, & really, we have nothing to fear from the taliban itself. Let 'em rot. But it is imperative that we destroy Al-queda operatives where we find them.
....+ again, corporate greed (which you seem to view as a bad thing) is far different than the celebration of amorality which modern western entertainment glorifies (in the eyes of a large part of the world's people)
I feel
But I don't necessarily think that amorality is restricted to the left nor even necessarily something that defines the left. There are those conservatives who would like to say it does but certainly we could look at a number of Republican and supposedly conservative Republicans at that over the last year and I do believe you would find what some would consider amorality. I would guess that there are any number of people with money who are backers of films which one might consider amoral. These films are backed simply because they will make money. And yes, I don't like greed, corporate, individual or otherwise, and I do consider it bad. This is obviously my opinion. A reasonable compensation for work done is one thing. Would you say that Madoff's greed was a good thing? That it produced good results for anyone other than him and a few others around him?
hhhhmmmmmm.........where to jump in?
"But I don't necessarily think that amorality is restricted to the left nor even necessarily something that defines the left."
........Interesting you would say that. Yet its the left, the extreme left which constantly assaults religious tradition, seeking to enshrine what many view as immorality in law. From redefining traditional families to cosmetic abortion on demand, from blasphemy as art to .....well..you get the picture.
....admitedly, the extreme right is not much better. Little prudes peeking into bedroom windows. But their influence on conservative thinking is negligible, whereas currently liberalism is being held hostage by the extremes of the ideaology.
....To say that some "religious" conservatives fail in their aspirations to a better life is to say water is wet. But the left celebrates each one and offers it as proof of some kind idealogical hypocracy. I'm always amused watching Barney Frank & Ted Kennedy passing judgement on any fucking body.
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And yes, I don't like greed, corporate, individual or otherwise, and I do consider it bad.
......greed is neutral. It is neither good nor bad. THAT yawning maw only exists in nature,,,...in people
I believe the left (which includes me) does not see it saw amorality but rather freedom of expression and free will of the individual. I'm sorry but I don't really believe that "currently liberalism is being held hostage by the extremes of the ideaology." You can believe that but I will still disagree with you. For instance, do you believe public health care is part of the far left ideology? Does that mean that Canada, England, France (hm, probably most of Europe actually) are of the far left? Hm, I wonder if I already know the answer.
With respect to "greed is neutral", I think you are nitpicking. Fine, if you like, I consider the greed of people bad.
I am not a Christian. I think however if you are and you look in the Bible it indicates that greed is not good.
II Peter 2:14 - (false prophets) "have hearts trained in greed"
I think you could find any number of references to greed being evil. I'm not saying that the Bible is necessarily a good reference. I'm just pointing it out.
Interesting
no sweat, Jeff!
so you think a world with no physical strife would be a bad thing? I do not. As a race, we need to move beyond the schoolyard bully phase. Is that Christian dogma? I'll call it spiritual dogma.
...and the sniper? Drop a big net on him, get him away from society at large so we can concentrate on what's important. These violent distractions are not the future. (ehhemm, I did enjoy "The Watchmen"...)
hhmmm, wanted to find a quote from an old sci-fi novel, but I'm tired of lookin'...peace out bro!!
...Nor am i a christian.
"believe the left (which includes me) does not see it saw amorality but rather freedom of expression and free will of the individual"
........Liberty is not license.
"For instance, do you believe public health care is part of the far left ideology(?)"
...of course i do!! I have been endowed by my creator with certain inalienable rights. I get not a single "right" from my government. We the people have no more "right" to healthcare than we do auto-upkeep.
...nowhere have "we the people" granted to government at any level the right or obligation to maintain the health of the citizenry.
"As a race, we need to move beyond the schoolyard bully phase. Is that Christian dogma?"
...well. yes, it is. Turning cheeks n all. 7 times 70 if need be.
(I think i got that right)
The harem is known to bicker from time to time, But I have so far been successful in quelling the seeds of dissent.
Peace is the primary objective, but it must be a soul pleasing peace. Peace achieved through fear is not a true peace. It is a subjugation of the weaker who feign peace but are in fact warring within. This internal strife can only be masked for so long before it once again rears it's ugly head.
If they cannot be bought to embrace a true peace, they are banished from the monastery.
It is the only way...