THE MUSIC BLOGGING HIVE MIND
deadmandeadman
deadmandeadman
Add To My Trusted Moggers

Underground (A NON-MUSIC POST) (political in fact)

Posted over 2 years ago
With the resignation today of the most brilliant political stratagists of our generation, there are some on the left who are no doubt popping champagne and whoopping it up. They've been after his scalp for years out of fear they'll have to face his stratagies again in the future. But Rove & Co are too smart to be brought down by bogus investigations of non-crimes and purely political manuevers.But before anyone gets too tipsy with joy, one would do well to consider...why now?Dispite his assertions to the contrary, the possibility of his turning up as an operative in another campaign in 2008 should be keeping the dems awake at night, especially Barak Obama."..If you're runnin' the countryAnd you ain't runnin' it funkyYou gotta get down"
0

Comments (20)

  1. Marigold
    Marigold says I wonder if one of the current Republican primary camps are courting him?
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  2. deadmandeadman
    deadmandeadman says I'm sure they'll all make their pitch. I'm not convinced there is a candidate yet in the GOP that Rove would through his support behind. He'll probably end up, for now, as a well shielded consultant for the RNC.
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  3. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says Partisanship is an ugly thing, sir.
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  4. Lyrikhan
    Lyrikhan says maybe MC Rove has decided to drop an album
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  5. deadmandeadman
    deadmandeadman says "....Partisanship is an ugly thing, sir." Say what? Lester Jonze this is a broad and sweeping statement! And it is not true, although in today's toxic political atmosphere it can be hard to tell.
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  6. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says It's not? _With the resignation today of the most brilliant political stratagists of our generation, there are some on the left who are no doubt popping champagne and whoopping it up. They’ve been after his scalp for years out of fear they’ll have to face his stratagies again in the future. But Rove & Co are too smart to be brought down by bogus investigations of non-crimes and purely political manuevers._
    Permalink posted 08/13/2007
  7. deadmandeadman
    deadmandeadman says Lester Jonze I still don't understand your point. Your first, very nihilistic statement is not clearified by your second.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  8. dermahrk
    dermahrk says Tsk tsk, deadmandeadman. Don't you KNOW this guy is to the right of the devil? Just another evil ratfuck Republipig? Totally without the morals of, say, Bill Clinton (AKA President Blowjob?). Shame shame shame ;)
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  9. ivylander
    ivylander says As you know, DM, I am no great friend of the current administration. But I feel neither gleeful vindication nor sadness. Just curiosity about the very odd timing and the "I want to spend more time with my family" explanation when his only son is in college. I believe the point that Mr. Jonze is making is that wanting power and being willing to do anything to get it, by means ethical or otherwise - and there is reason to believe that Mr. Rove is one who falls into that category - is not the same thing as exercising that power responsibly. In fact, there's a pretty good argument that it makes the latter job more difficult.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  10. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says Sort of. Partisanship has become the defining term for this political era. Gone are the post 9-11 days where political differences, party affiliations and the lot were cast aside for the good of the people. The war has certainly seen to that. Now, more than anytime since the sixties this country is almost divided down the middle politically. The last presidential election, and to a lesser degree, the 200 election has shown us that people have no more backbone politically than to fall in line with their party. We have become sheep, basically, we exhibit herd behavior like no other society. Now we have Republicans and Democrats standing on either side of the fence. The president, on national television, constantly deriding the democrats, most recently in this week's press conference, scolding them for having incorrect priorities when asked about future methods of monetary appropriations for infrastructure. Instead of rising above and urging the legislative branch to work together for something which is for the good of all Americans, the President made the inference that it was democrats who had incorrect priorities when it came to appropriating funds. There is no question as to the intelligence or political acumen of Mr. Rove. Nor is there any question to the power he wields within the administration. As a close adviser and friend to the president for some twenty years, he is as much the author of the President's poltical agenda, if not more, than the President himself. We need someone in office who has the mental depth to think for himself and not to be led around in the similar manner as we sheep are. However, the architect and protagonist of the current partisan attitude in Washington (And make no mistake that the attitude begins with the office of the President) may also bring about the downfall somewhat. The coming presidential election will see to that. The Republican candidates have already been falling over themselves in attempts to distance themselves from the President and his policies. Only John McCain has aligned with the President fully on, most notably the issues of the War and Immigration, Issues number one and two in terms of importance for the next election. And you see the state of his campaign. Not that the Democrats are behaving any better. The congress has shown it's ineptitude to stand with any degree of solidarity against the president on the major issues previously stated. In a microcosmic sense this is shown by all the infighting amongst the democratic party in both houses. And the President, sensing this, wastes no time or opportunity to get in the press and thumb his nose at the Democrats and spin the issue to Republican vs Democrat. On some level this his is job as head of his party, but aren't the times we live in a little to crucial for such grandstanding on a daily basis. The democrats are far too fragmented as a party to stand up to the president on any issue, from wiretapping to Alberto Gonzales, to trying war funding to anything. Karl Rove has positioned himself well, his timing is excellent. By the time he rests and recharges his batteries, the Election process will be in full swing, and he will pretty much have his pick in his path back to power within the leading Republican candidate. Whether he chooses to do this remains to be seen, but he has certainly positioned himself most excellently. Lastly, the partisanship which has so bitterly divided the Capitol and the political process has finally trickled down (Reagan is still relevant) to your common man, being led around like so many sheep, blindly believing whatever his party of affiliation wishes for him to believe. _They’ve been after his scalp for years out of fear they’ll have to face his strategies again in the future. But Rove & Co are too smart to be brought down by bogus investigations of non-crimes and purely political manuevers._ !https://secure3.gct21.net/~christmascards/images/flag1js.gif! This should be the most important thing in times such as these, not who can point their finger the loudest and from which direction the finger comes.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  11. deadmandeadman
    deadmandeadman says ivylander.....shame on you. "and there is reason to believe that Mr. Rove is one who falls into that category – is not the same thing as exercising that power responsibly. In fact, there’s a pretty good argument that it makes the latter job more difficult. Insinuation and inuendo? ONE specific example please. Lester Jonze you fooled me. I thought you were gonna give me a well reasoned response, presented without rancor. Yet the absurdist dogma of the left bulges out between your words like multiple hernias. I'm very happy that Bush scolded Congress about priorities. Gasoline taxes were instituted to maintain highways. Period. For the last thirty years Congress has used those monies for various pork barrel projects, and much more. Both sides are guilty of this. You boldly assert "On some level this his is job as head of his party, but aren’t the times we live in a little to crucial for such grandstanding on a daily basis." And you say it with a straight face! You kill me bro. You oughtta be on comedy central. "Harry Reid boasts on national television that he's held 104 hearings investigating this administration, and plans on many many more with the STATED GOAL of tying up the admin. so it cannot conduct it's policies. But thats not grandstanding in crucial times, right? And of course you fall back on the favored cannard of the left; Did you not imply that we who believe our president have been hoodwinked. That if we only would listen to illuminatti such as yourself we would see how dumb we all are? Yes, we are in the age of gutter politics, and no one party shares any more blame than the other. But one Ideology sure does. A conservative may not always agree with what's said, but he'll still fight (to the death if need be) for one's right to speak. It has become quite clear that a liberal will shout you down, insult you, attack you, any tactic AT ALL to silence those who won't toe the line. That's ugly. Ugly to the bone.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  12. waydutch
    waydutch says "bogus investigations of non-crimes" - outing CIA agents as revenge for their spouces daring to cast doubt on your false claims aimed to justify war isn't treason? It is in my book.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  13. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says If that's what you got from what I wrote, then you proved my point for me. Rather than engage in thoughtful debate, you insult. I thought you were above that, I thought wrong. Perhaps you should go back and read. This quote _“On some level this his is job as head of his party, but aren’t the times we live in a little to crucial for such grandstanding on a daily basis.”_ refers to the arrogance of a President scoffing at the leadership of the congress, it refers to the president as an individual leading not only a party, but a nation, it does not refer to the ideal for which his party stands. it had nothing to with my comment about appropriations. My issues are not with Conservatism as an ideal, or it's competition with Liberalism as a seperate ideal, but the individual. Just for the record, I do not consider myself to be a conservative or a liberal. I have views from both sides, I do not affiliate myself with any political party, I am an independant. I was under the impression you of all people took these matters seriously, serious enough not to grandstand and insult, but to be objective enough to have engaged in somewhat polite terms of discussion. Again I was wrong, I'll not make the same mistake again. Your partisanship shows through, however. _Yes, we are in the age of gutter politics, and no one party shares any more blame than the other. But one Ideology sure does. A conservative may not always agree with what’s said, but he’ll still fight (to the death if need be) for one’s right to speak._ _It has become quite clear that a liberal will shout you down, insult you, attack you, any tactic AT ALL to silence those who won’t toe the line._ The point that some of use can't get over our own ideaology for the betterment of our country has been made perfectly by you, sir.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  14. deadmandeadman
    deadmandeadman says waydutch you're way behind the story line there, bud. Its well known, undisputed in fact, the the CIA employeee was 'outed' by Richard Armitage a career state department operative with strong feelings against the president. Its also clear, that Valerie Plame was not covered under the cited laws because she was not an "operative" AS DEFINED BY STATUTE. So Treason? Hardly. Lester Jonze, your thinly veiled distaste DID knock me off point. I apologize for that. Of the two biggest issues you mentioned, the war and immigration, I do believe immigration to be the issue dearer to American hearts accross the board. I say this because when our "leaders" tried to foist a terrible bogus bill through congress the people spoke with a collective roar that stopped things dead. The bill was defeated. People care very passionately about this issue because the concepts are easy for everyone to get a handle on. The war is a much different kettle of fish. People feel a very deep ambivilance on this issue. Although most polls show Americans do not support the war anymore, those same polls, further analyzed show America's displeasure is not the war conceptually, but how the war has been prosecuted. No one can deny that mistakes were made and are being made. But many feel that the war in Iraq is the CENTRAL war in the war on terror. As I say, America feels, not devided, but ambivilent about this issue because they sense , even if only vaguely, that on some level its necessary. So perhaps I was a bit over the top. But you questioned the Presidents mental prowess, which I took offense to. To respond in kind was not the right thing to do, and I really don't believe I did. I thought my final statement, which you quoted, was presented in a forth right manner without bile or vitriol. Without addressing the point at all, you quote it as if it were an indictment! In what way does that reveal my partisanship? Do you dispute it? I don't know how you could. Regardless, that you disagree with me does not render what I said evil or malicious. In your origin. I guess you just touched a nerve.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  15. ivylander
    ivylander says OK, I don't want to get into a long post here, but there is a well-documented tendency for sleazy stuff to happen when Rove is in charge of a campaign. You can say that these are allegations, and that nothing has been proved, but it's pretty much universally acknowledged as a management principle that the fish rots from the head. When Bush was running against Ann Richards for the Texas governorship in '94, "pollsters" called voters asking questions like, "Would you be more or less likely to vote for Governor Richards if you knew her staff is dominated by lesbians?" There is an uncanny tendency for whisper campaigns to be mounted against those opposing Rove candidates. You'll probably remember the rumors that circulated in 2000 against John McCain, to the effect that, while a prisoner of war in Vietnam, McCain had betrayed his country under interrogation and been rendered mentally unfit for office. (A disgraceful thing to say about an honored veteran, wouldn't you say?) Oh, and that McCain had fathered a black child out of wedlock. (Turned out he and his wife had adopted a Bangladeshi child.) Same deal with Kerry and the Swift Boat folk. Not a scintilla of evidence in either case, but the excrement stuck nonetheless. And in a 1994 judgeship race, the Rove candidate's opponent, who had worked tirelessly to prevent child abuse, was the subject of another round of rumor-mongering. He was accused of being a pedophile. This time, a former Rove campaign worker fesses up that it was Rove at the bottom of it. "It was our standard practice to use the University of Alabama Law School to disseminate whisper-campaign information," the former worker said. "The students at the law school are from all over the state, and Karl knew they'd take it back to their home towns and it would get out." Also traced directly back to Rove, in another Alabama judgeship race, was the somewhat unusual tactic - born out of desperation, probably, because the guy's campaign was reprtedly not going well - of printing an anonymous and unusually vicious flyer attacking his own candidate personally. "We were told, 'Do not hand it to anybody, do not tell anybody who you're with, and if you can, borrow a car that doesn't have your tags,' " a campaign worker later admitted. The idea was to drum up support for the candidate by making it look as if his opponent was behind the smears. DM, if you feel that these examples represent the responsible, ethical exercise of power, I would like to hear the reasoning behind that. You should know that I don't say things lightly. I know the difference between my mouth and my sphincter. And then there are the things Rove has said. In the interest of not writing a post that goes on forever, I will simply mention the one that I find most offensive. Rove's direct quote: "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war. Liberals saw the savagery on 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." This is pure bullshit. Tell me who sought "therapy and understanding for our attackers." You could count them on one hand. And if you're going to tell me that it was intended as a joke, I will tell you that it is the most disingenuous, cynical, mean-spirited joke I've ever heard. In fact, I think it's just that kind of willfully polarizing portraiture of "the other side" - that attitude that anyone who does not fall into lockstep with my point of view is either evil or deluded, and must in any event be crushed - that has brought us to the pathetic state of political discourse that we find ourselves in now. The whole idea that the left/right represents the forces of light and the right/left the forces of darkness is a dream we all need to wake up from. Rove is hardly the only person responsible for this, but he is pretty clearly the principal architect of the way politics are currently practiced in this country. For that, no matter how many campaigns he has won, shame on him. He has debased the very idea of our democracy.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  16. waydutch
    waydutch says Novak released the story only after what he considered confirmation from Rove and in my opinion on Rove's behalf.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  17. waydutch
    waydutch says No doubt he is a brillant (and IMO super sleezy) political operative in the mold of Lee Atwater. His work to have gay marriage limitations included on the ballots of several states, including Ohio during the 2004 presidential vote, was a masterstroke and in the end the reason we got stuck with with four more years of Bush's culture of corruption. . What does Barak in particular have to fear for from Karl Rove? Something along the lines of what Rove, did in 2000 after McCain had beaten Bush in New Hampsire? Part of their staregy then included push polls (using the guise of opinion polling, to spread rumours and disinformation about a candidate or issue in the minds of those being 'surveyed') against McCain. South Carolina voters were asked "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?". They had no interest in the actual percentages in the poll, the goal was to suggest that McCain had an illegitimate black child. This was particularly vicious since McCain was campaining with his adopted Bangladeshi daughter and was it then latched unto by their (Bush's) press lackeys as the basis to publish the "question" as news. Brillant? Yes! Evil? Yes! . Anyway, I'm sure we're never going to see eye to eye on politics. So, let's get back to some common ground; music.
    Permalink posted 08/14/2007
  18. wassonii
    wassonii says Regardless of politic, I recommend spellcheck. It's a lot easier to continue reading lines of argument when not wincing due to simple errors.
    Permalink posted 08/15/2007
  19. waydutch
    waydutch says Sorry, was in a hurry and spelling was never a great subject for me. Yeah, what is a staregy anyway? :)
    Permalink posted 08/15/2007
  20. shinsaholic
    shinsaholic says a political discussion on mog? Oh boy. It's plain to see why your adversaries have rang in on this, what with a polarizing statement like: "But Rove & Co are too smart to be brought down by bogus investigations of non-crimes and purely political maneuvers."
    This can't help help but remind some of Giants fans and Barry Bonds. The home run king hasn't been convicted of anything either but Bud Selig, like the President with Rove, wants to be far away.
    Permalink posted 08/15/2007

Comment on this Post

Login using email and password below.

Forgot Password?

Don't have an account?
Join MOG. It's Free!

Top Artists

Our Daily Picks

RSS

Top Artists From A to Z

© 2006-2009 Mog Inc. All Rights Reserved