Why is there so much Homophobia in Reggae?
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Artist:
I know that this is not news to most Reggae fans but for those who do not listen to that much Reggae... Now you know. I should clarify that when I say Reggae, I am talking about Dancehall music wwhich is the uptempo/high energy style of Reggae that is played in clubs.
Last night I was Djing and this topic came up because some Gay friends came to the club. I found myself being worried that one of these songs would slip through the cracks, sure enough it happened and I had to tell the others that were spinning to keep those kind of tunes to a minimum. Now this is kinda a tall order due to the fact that the topic seems to be part of current Reggae and Dancehall culture.
There are quite a few songs that have been released over the last few years that are unapplogeticaly Homophobic and I am amazed to hear new songs with quesionable lyrics still being released. The topics vary from subjects about Batty Boys (Batty is Patois for ass) to things like Mr. Vegas' song below that begins with the chorus singing "No Sodomite".
Here are a few (be warned the lyrics are graphic & for 18+)...
Leftside & Esco - Stay Far From We
Vybes Kartel - Neva You
Sizzla - No Way
Mr. Vegas - Cocky She Want
Here is an interesting interview with the Jamaican Prime Minister Bruce Gulding talking about Homophobia in his cabinet and his thoughts on the subject in general:
I have written about this topic before (http://mog.com/ch33v3rs/blog/16597) and have purposefully left out the poster child of Homophobia in Reggae Buju Banton, wich you can read out in the post reffeerenced above. It is still something that bothers me. I can't deffend the artists for there hurtfull words and at the sametime I will not promote this kind of discrimination.
I have spoken to couple of friends who also DJ and they told me an extremely interesting sidenote. When some of these tunes come on in the dance they have seen people that are openly Gay singing these songs, even more excited than others in the club about the subject matter. That's right seen people that are Gay singing these Homophobic songs at the top of there lungs. What is that about?
I do not know that there is an answer but I think that as Dancehall becomes more popular we will see this issue come up in the national media and be more comprehensively addressed by the artists themselves.
Forward,
Kiaran
Locating MOG account...
Comments (23)
Not to excuse it, but I'd say that Jamaican culture is very macho and masculine. I remember a Jamaican friend of mine saying that where he's from a man would never admit to going down on a woman. Not that it doesn't happen, of course, but I guess it's somehow looked down upon. So, if eating puss is considered un-manly, taking it up the ass...well...
I think the same is true for rap and hip hop, too, isn't it? Not that I'm an expert or anything. I think the macho mentality Troy mentions applies there as well.
Yeah, but it's not nearly as bad as in reggae. Whereas hip-hop records come out of America, they're often forced to be a little PC. I remember Eminem had a lyric, "My English teacher wanted to fuck me in junior high/The only problem was, my English teacher was a guy," and he was forced to change it for the album. But, in raggae, you can get away with saying something like, "All fags should die," and nobody really thinks twice about it.
I get a flavor for the vibe in Brooklyn, and the homophoia is here in the heavily Caribbean community (being gay isn't too accepted by Italian, Eastern European, orthodox Jewish icommunities either). I lived in St.Thomas,USVI and homophobia was very open...even though there were no more or no less gay folks in the community.
Fact is, I think Jamaican homophobia gets a lot of attention, but homophobia is pretty much everywhere. I mean, how different is what the PM is saying, to what some politicians in the U.S. say, under the guise of family values. Prop 8 in California was pretty much driven by homophobia, fear, and religion.
In the US it isn't as acceptable to openly bash races,origins, or orientations, so codes are developed (urban, life style chioce,immigrant,etc.) to get the intolerant point across. Fear is one hell of a weapon.
i never understood why the dancehall reggae community chooses to the phobia as a trademark. the second i read the title of this post Buju Banton did come to mind.
if you take into account what cody b says about prop 8 being driven by the phobia the question that comes up is is it better to be vocal about it, like the dancehall artists or secretly quiet - as it prevails in other subcultures. either way you are stuck with the same church-praising outcome.
I think that artist's who include homophobia in their songs are trying to distance themselves from the homosexual feelings that they have themselves. Most would deny this but then again, people who do so aren't in touch with their emotional side anyway since they are so busy stuffing their emotions back within themselves. It'd be interesting to know how many of these artists are actually on the downlow w/other men.
Right on A1..even in openly anti-gay communities, there are roughly the same number of gay folks as there are in the general population. Discrimination needs to be called out..people need to be accepted.
Many thanks for the reasoning!!!
I feel like it comes down to two factors, the first being as Troy mentioned above that Jamaica is a masculine society and it is also a very religious society. Most of these artists have an image that they project to the fans of beig a "Bad Man" or a Gangster and Gay bashing is the ultimate way to be the alpha male in Carribean culture.
Conbine the masculine with a society deeply rooted in its spirtituality and these types of attitudes are common place as they are perpetuated by the church, not to mention the state as seen in the statements made by the Prime Minister. Cody makes a great point about Prop. 8 here in California and how even in the most liberal of places Homophobia is still alive and well.
k
Great post..love to see more folks jump in.
Yes Cody... It is great to see so many folks speak on the subject. Serious business this!!!
I'm not wholly familiar with modern dancehall and hip-hop, but think that the religious element has a lot to do with it. Prior to the growth of Rastafarianism, the principal religious influences in Jamaica were Baptist and Scottish Presbyterian. The latter group has long been noted for its Calvinism and innate conservatism, with a fairly "Old Testament" attitude towards religious and social tolerance. Even some colleagues of mine from a presbyteria background, who would otherwise present as having impeccably left-wing credentials, have visibly struggled to accept the importance og gay rights.
Most Rastas are, on the face of it, given towards a fairly literalist view of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Unless some major and admired figure in the reggae world is prepared to "come out", they will not require to challenge their own belief systems. Mind you, given that one prominent artist turned his own bigotry up to Eleven just because rival DJs started implying that he was a Friend of Dorothy, I'm sadly not holding my breath...
Many thanks Baulolino... I greatly appreciate the shedding of light on the religious side of this argument because that is the major factor in the belief system of all of these artists.
Teach dem.
Thanks ch33v3rs & Cody.
I agree that religion does have a huge impact on homophobia as well. It's a complicated issue for sure. There are no easy answers. Unfortunately this post will more than likely be read by sympathetic eyes & not be seen by those who need to see it most. Then again, I have no idea who is out there reading, just a premise, since Moggers tend to be more liberal minded from what I've seen.
I don't know that I can add a great deal to the discussion. What I have heard of dancehall is not to my taste. I did think that Lee Perry's recent video was lewd and crude but no one has argued that being a great artist and a decent human being coincide... Thought the interview with the Prime Minister was illuminating, but I am not sure I want to be a tourist in Jamaica, however much in awe I am of the talent and outpouring of music from that island...
Unenlightened idiocy could be the main the reason...
With all that booty rompin and shakin going on, you'd think it would be a gay magnet! Butt for some reason...black men are militaristic about homophobia. I live in Oakland, Ca. If people want to see gay people" go to sf" has always been the motto. But I think it will eventually be accepted. Who is my girlfriend gonna get to cut her hair in Rockridge that aint gay? When homophobic men realize that being over zealous about it is a waste of breath...men will have evolved one more notch in the Darwin charts...
I'm not pro anything. Being gay shouldn't even be an issue...it's somebody's way of life.
Oh yeah...and Ska music is redeeming the original reggae sound btw...none of that batty bumbaclot electric drum CRAP! Electric DRUMS in REGGAE!? Gimme a fucking break! Electric drums are hella gay...sorry...couldn't resist that one...
:)
I find the rationale that "it's a masculine society" a bit wanting. The truth is, it WANTS to be a masculine society. The way (they think) to flaunt their macho-ness is to subjugate/denigrate other men whom they find less "macho." This betrays their inherent fear that they, themselves, will not be perceived as masculine enough without such behavior. It's the same sort of "pecking order" behavior that animals engage in when determining who is the leader of the pack.
I find it interesting that older societies in Europe have gotten past this behavior (for the most part). Does that make them more advanced than we are? I wonder...
Well....here I am.....a day or two late and a dollar short. One observation I would make concerning the subject at hand & the ensueing thread of comments.....For conversational clarity & honesty...lets us call it what it is..and let us clarify what it is not.
I think the cultures explored within this thread hold homosexuality in disdain. I think it may disgust them. Perhaps they hate it as unnatural.
But to call it homophobia is laughable. Who is afraid? This term is dishonest political discourse in it's most insideous form. Setting up a false premise (fear of homosexuality)....does not allow for honest debate. It pleases some, I guess, to believe that people don't understand & if they did they'd be more accepting. I think folks understand quite well & contrary to the PC crowd....most folks reject the concept. That's a fact, jack. And its convenient to blame religious beliefs ....and the illuminati understand that religion is silly superstition.
...Now it happens that the younger generations, having been bombarded all their short lives with the messages from the thought police, are more accepting....in certain demographics.
...and that's all i have to say about that.
A gay comedian here in the UK did a documentary on this very topic. He even traveled to Jamaica to try to get some interviews with gay people there, not one would agree to even meet him for fear of their life. Gay killings are practically the norm there, and the police turn a blind eye. It's not surprising that this bigoted attitude is reflected in the music.
He did get an interview with Elephant Man, who's particularly notorious (although the presenter refrained from mentioning his homosexuality to Elephant Man, and I don't blame him). All that came out of it was that Elephant Man thinks it's perfectly normal to sing about things like that.
It's just the culture there, there's nothing much to be done about it. I know gay rights groups have protested against such artists being allowed to perform here, as it's literally incitement to violence. *sigh* When will society wake up.
@deadman: "Homophobia" while literally meaning "fear of homosexuals" has developed an understood connotation that means more than that. It's a polite term for something too ugly to face head-on.
To apologize for their behavior because they're "disgusted" is to betray the real point here. It's none of their business. WHY they do it is irrelevant. There is no justification for it, no matter their reason. Period.
In this country, things are no longer like this, though it once was. LGBT citizens have gained rights and respect for their privacy since that evening in 1969 when a bar full of gay people refused to be harassed any longer and took to the streets. Things in Jamaica will continue to be dismal until some brave group of souls combine their strength and fight back also.
CODY B is right. In Italy gay ppl are not accepted, I can confirm it as I'm an Italian lesbian. Even though it's not the same (as everywhere in the world) in all areas/towns of Italy. I was born in Treviso (30km far from Venice) - Northern-Eastern Italy - and it is one of the most homophobic place I've ever seen/traveled to. Yet, I have lived in Florence (Central Italy) for five years and I had the opportunity to grow up in a "safe" place for my mind. What I wanted to say is that I can't conceive why ppl who know BY their skin/experience what it feels like to be discriminated and ppl who struggled hard for their rights, for being respected are able to discriminate at their turn. I know it's like a naif thought, but really I can't conceive it. I love reggae music, though I am gay. Reggae roots it's like a 25% of my listenings.
Tonight I have planned to go to a General Levy dancehall with my girlfriend and some friends. We didn't have so much choices because Treviso is small and the only gay-friendly crowds are in those places (called "centro sociale") run by open-minded (and often left-wing) ppl who cares for art, minorities, and social issues. I was trying to understand (by internet info) if General Levy is one of those homophobic reggea musicians. Then I've caught myself just thinking
-That's fucking sad I should "fear" a reggae gig/dancehall crowd. I love reggae, I struggle against all kind of racism... and ppl I normally "defend" probably will discriminate me tonight.
deadman sez:
I think folks understand quite well & contrary to the PC crowd....most folks reject the concept.
I sez:
Reject the concept of being gay? Is being gay a concept? And anyway, even accepting that flawed assertion..When is beating people up OK? When is not allowing someone to serve in a government because they are gay OK?
I thought you would be, a keep the government out of my bedroom person?
What is the debate that is dishonest? If you don't like the term homophobia, fine..call it what it is...Hate. Something more like,"I don't like the way you live and I don't want you near me." I guess that's not fear, but fuck semantics.
Do we need a world where you can say, "I don't like you or your kind (whatever that kind may be), so your civil rights are now void?"
I'm not "blaming" religion, I blame people and yes, I believe attitudes can change.
I mean it is hard to see exactly where you are coming from here, but you seem to be saying that hate is good and efforts at making people understand and get to know people they used to hate is not good.
Please enlighten me..