SUTC: Rock Sacrilege - The Truth is Out There
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Ok gang, I'm about to knowingly commit rock sacrilege. I'm not going to provide too much comment here, I just need you to listen to the attached clips and notice the dates. All commentary is from Wikipedia. Some songs were deliberately cut off by me once the point was made.
1. Babe I'm Gonna Leave you by Joan Baez 1962
1. Babe I'm Gonna Leave You by Led Zeppelin 1969
The band was inspired to cover the song after hearing Baez's version. Both guitarist Jimmy Page and singer Robert Plant were big fans of Baez. Baez's original album had indicated that the song was a traditional number, and Led Zeppelin followed suit by crediting the song as "Trad., arr. Page". In the 1980s, Bredon was made aware of Led Zeppelin's version of the song. Since 1990 the Led Zeppelin version has been credited to Anne Bredon/Jimmy Page & Robert Plant, and Bredon received a substantial back-payment in royalties.
2. Dazed and Confused by Jake Holmes 1967
2. Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin 1969
When the Yardbirds disbanded in 1968, the song "Dazed and Confused" was re-worked by Page yet again, this time while as a member of Led Zeppelin. Page took the title, came up with a new set of lyrics, and changed enough of the melody to escape a plagiarism lawsuit from Jake Holmes. The Led Zeppelin version was not credited to Jake Holmes, and they also had a different ASCAP code asigned to it. While Holmes took no action at the time, he did later contact Jimmy Page in regards to the matter. Page has not yet replied.
3. You Need Love by Willy Dixon 1962
3. Whole Lotta Love by Led Zeppelin 1969
From Wikipedia: "In 1962, Muddy Waters recorded "You Need Love" written for him by peer Willie Dixon. In 1966 British mod band the Small Faces recorded the song as "You Need Loving" for their début Decca LP. Some of the lyrics of Led Zeppelin's version were borrowed from the Willie Dixon song, a favorite of Plant's. Plant's phrasing is particularly similar to that of Steve Marriott's in the Small Faces' version. Similarities with "You Need Love" would lead to a lawsuit against Led Zeppelin, settled out of court in favour of Dixon in 1985. Strangely, the Small Faces were never sued by Dixon, even though "You Need Loving" still only credits Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott."
4. Killin Floor by Howlin Wolf 1966
4. The Lemon Song by Led Zeppelin 1969
"Killing Floor" is a song by American blues singer-songwriter and guitarist Howlin' Wolf, featured on his 1966 album The Real Folk Blues. One of Wolf's best-known songs, "Killing Floor" has been covered by a wide variety of artists - including such high-profile acts as The Jimi Hendrix Experience, Eric Clapton and Led Zeppelin - and is frequently noticed as one of the most influential blues songs of all-time.Led Zeppelin performed the song live in 1968 and 1969, and later used it as the basis for their song "The Lemon Song". Bootleg copies of early Led Zeppelin concerts include rough versions of the song credited as "Killing Floor." Their version, which also included some lyrics from Robert Johnson's "Travelling Riverside Blues," credited Chester Burnett (Howlin' Wolf) on some copies of Led Zeppelin II, with the original title. The song was retitled "The Lemon Song" and after legal involvement on the part of Burnett's publishers, the song was credited to "Page/Plant/Jones/Bonham/Burnett".
5. Taurus by Spirit 1968
5. Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin 1971
Comments (20)
sigh ... that kinda breaks my heart. I thought they were original ... not copy and pasters :/
I knew there would be this reaction. There may even yet be a rebellion and I get booted from MOG. But from what I've read, Jimmy Page loved to plagiarize and take credit.
LOL ... it won't be that bad. Maybe you should start a blog on how many groups have plagarized; wait maybe it'd be better to do one on ones that have NOT ... it'd be shorter.
It's just a bummer finding out how many times they actually have done it.
Yeah, it's tough finding out the great ones were human too:-)
Though this may rain on some parades, at least to me and others I know in the music community, this stuff is common knowledge, though I bet, to the younger listener a revelation....
Nice little bit of research
Great post..Really enjoyed it. A fave topic of mine.
Others would argue, that he is carrying on a blues tradition..I mean Killing Floor goes back beyond Howling Wolf, no?
Willie Dixon did write plenty of new material, but many of those Chess Records sides carried on from previous Blues tunes, and could easily be considered traditional.
Should Jimmy have cut the Blues cats, where appropriate, some writing credit? YES.
Did he actually help Blues folks get paid and recognized by continuing the tradition with his own style, as Chess electrified (and urbanized) the Delta Blues, LEd Zep was part of a furthering of the electric blues sound. Those British Groups..a lot of 'em..were making the blues their own.
When I first found out this stuff back in the day, I was pretty upset, but I have definitely come to terms with it on a number of levels..
Jimmy Page comes off to me as a modern song catcher, an updated version of what The Carter Family was doing..popularizing songs they didn't write and taking writers credit where they probably shoudn't have. They did however, save the songs! Musicains have been trading/stealing licks forever..Jimmy Page, as a studio musican, must have heard many.
To me Jimmy Page is a riff machine..one after another..layer on layer of riffs, kinda like a Modern Hip Hop DJ or producer, except with a guitar. I think he made something original by placing these blues songs in another context..
Blues riffs were not the only ones he nicked/exploited/extolled/praised/spread to the world either. Jimmy was an equal opportunity sampler of the British Folk guitar..
Michael (Young Moss Tongue) made a comp called the Roots of Led Zeppelin....
Blackwater Side - Bert Jansch
She Moved Thru The Bizarre/Blue Ragga - Davey Graham
Dance Of The Inhabitants Of The Palace Of King Phillip XIV Of Spain - John Fahey
The Waggoner's Lad- Bert Jansch
For me what this all says is that Jimmy Page had some wide open ears..for blues, folk, and R&b. He and Plant synthesized it all into something new. It's a shame that full credit isn't given where it is due..but that's why we are here.
Now if I heard something where Page or Plant complained about Hip hop samples or wouldn't issue a sample clearance or sued someone for plagarism, I would totally go ape shit. They, of all people, should know better.
I guess it just means Page was a guitar player, not a poet.
Blackwater Side page on wiki
One thing is for sure..in the folk scene of the 50 + 60's songs were pretty fluid (as to authorship)..I guess this has always been true, but once money is involved it does get ugly.
There was an entire book written about Wimoweh (Lion Sleeps tonight)
I guess in the final analysis for me..I wish Page had given credit to folks (not necessarily writer credit) or acknowledged them at the time. Just as I feel modern sample users should do the same.
Shit I knew nothing about this, dam shame but I cant stop liking the music, there are only so many combo's so its far to say there will be crossovers but it would be an honourable thing to name the source.
I had seen somewhere that they had used (reworked) a lot of old blues tunes that were free domain so they won't have to pay royalites to use the songs. I never knew that Stairway was borrowed as well. Nice informative post Cap.
Out here, source music can be in the form of chants, modified genealogical songs, etc. Over the decades, musicians, publishers, and students of folkways have put their stamp/reworked/be-bopped the originals onto a naive world via "Hawaii Calls" radio. Usually, performers credit the source, though publication/release deadlines have created humorous or litigious omissions/misspellings/distortions. (You say "Neye kohn," the Japanese say "Nih kone.") In the end, the composers are rediscovered and Art is satisfied. (As for Hip-Hop samplers, I'm with Quincy Jones on that subject.)
What did Quincy say about samplers? He seems pretty much OK with Hip hop..his son does hip hop too.
What's the difference between playing a riff that is stolen/borrowed/updated and sampling it? To my ears copying/learning is copying/learning..it just depends what you do with it. Sampling can be done with great skill and musicality just as playing an instrument can be done in a wrote,uncreative way. The reverse is true of course..wholesale song ripping like MC Hammer is not very creative, just as a John Coltrane solo is hyper creative. Sonic collages like Public Enemy, at least to me, succeed on a number of levels.
I agree that at some point all music is derivative to some extent, and I also acknowledge that many other bands/artsits have sampled or even plagiarized in the past; that isn't shocking or anything, but I AM a little surprised that Led Zeppelin gave no credit, or barely any credit, to these songwriters----especially Stairway to Heaven! I certainly always thought that was a Zeppelin original, at least. Now that I've heard "Taurus", I can't believe my ears! Did Spirit ever say anything regarding that?
p.s.--I was way into Public Enemy "back in the day"--and I have always loved the Beastie Boys. They, like Beck and others, have a gift for sampling and mixing.
great post, man.
not to defend anyone and definitely not loving wizillusions angle about why it might have happened with Zep, my thoughts are more about the blues in general.
it seems to me that over the years, they've ALL copped each other's sh*t and been cool with it. whether a chord progression, lyrics, whole songs or whatever, it just seemed okay within their community to a pretty major (excuse the pun) degree. if Paul Shaffer yells out "Blues in E" Dave's band knows what to play and someone knows some lyrics that fit, both of which have already been done by many artists.
i'm sure there were times that it was uncool and there definitely are classics, but it seems like most of those guys got the blues for other reasons so I'm thinking maybe we should ease up on Zep a bit.
That's what I say, pretty much, but with less pith. I'm cool with Jiimy Page doing what he did as long as he's cool with the next guy who does the same thing with "his" riffs.
you know as one who grew up as the yardbirds were playing with Page, Clapton and Beck they all were listening and playing american blues and think it all kind of melded together, As an artist I know that nothing is created in a vacuum and few things are just totally original. The sacred cow that is Zepplin for me started as a blues band that later learned how to create their own. I loved the first album but it is a creature of the current times and the blues and folk scene in England at the time. This really is something that can't be hashed over in one post. The sore point for me is that Page got credit for some music that american blues players should have got but that is more a product of the times and the record companies taking advantage of blues artists which really wasn't new at the time .Still love Zepplin and interesting comments as well.
As usual, what irks me the most isn't so much the subject of the thread, but the human reaction, in this case, Page's. It makes sense to me that he should at least reply to inquiries, especially in a case like Jake Holmes where he tried to contact Page one on one (i.e. sans legal team if he could have afforded it) and got no response.
In every interaction as a human, my true self is revealed.
Not dissing the band here. Their versions were stellar. But fair is fair in the credit and character department. (think porcupines in trees)
I don't expect much from Page, I'm not being critical of his playing just the human interaction part. I remember reading about him and Beck and the disagreement about who did the riffs on Beck's Bolero and each had their own version of who did what. Do we really know? Character and Art usually don't meet very often so I tend to enjoy the Art more than who they are.
I am always terrified of meeting artists whose work I like in an artist/fan setting..what if they are jerks? I turned down a chance to meet James Brown for just that reason. Well, I also have a problem with back stage meet + greets/grip+grins.