as much as i love the life and times, (who if you haven't already checked out you should check out as soon as humanly impossible) i don't think i will ever fully be okay with a world that lacks shiner. starless is such an excellent record, could have benefitted from a slightly better eq'ed drum kit, but whatever. lots of records come out with perfect eq's but very few of them match the punch that shiner lays out on this one. normally i find the math rocky/slightly emo/prog nod bands intolerable, but shiner always manages to steer clear of the endless noodling around that so many other bands have ruined perfectly good songs with. very few people buy records to hear how long someone can play odd time signatures and of those that do, they generally seem to stick with primus and lighting their farts on fire. shiner knows this and like the dude, they abide.if you can't get your hands on this one, the egg is just as fine an effort. you'll love em.when shiner broke up they split into 2 bands, the life and times and the great fire of 1666. i believe that the great fire of 1666 is no more, but if anyone out there has any info and more importantly some tracks, i would be ever so thankful if you could relay that info. thanks.