WHERE MUSIC LISTENS TO YOU

Trent Reznor: I Got $5 On It

Posted about 1 year ago
  • Artist:
  • Album:
    The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust
C|Net reports:Very early in a discussion with Trent Reznor, the front man for the band Nine Inch Nails, it's obvious how highly he prizes his collaboration with musician Saul Williams on the album ??The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust??.Reznor produced and helped bankroll the album, which debuted November 1. All the more reason why he was stunned when fewer than one in five people who downloaded the music were willing to pony up $5, roughly the cost of a McDonald's Quarter Pounder. For more info "CLICK HERE":CH??Reznor & Williams??Q: Trent, lots of fans were shocked and saddened by how disappointed you sounded with the sales results. Many piped up to tell you that the numbers may be misleading. Were the numbers that bad?Reznor: I'm not disappointed with the numbers with Saul at all. I think, particularly looking at what he's done historically and in the climate of today's music scene, that's something to be proud of. What disappointed me is that I had thought-and this is just based on how I experience music-given the opportunity (his voice trails off). Why do I end up stealing music? Usually because I can't get it easily somewhere else or the version I can get is an inferior one with DRM, perhaps, or I have to drive across town to get it to then put it on my computer or it's already out on the Internet and I can't pay for it yet.If I think of it a month later walking through Amoeba (record store), hmm...do I want to just buy a piece of plastic and give most of the money to the record labels, who have to be thieves because my experience with them has always been that? And you have a lot of reasons why you didn't do it. So I thought if you take all those away and here's the record in as great a quality as you could ever want, it's available now and it's offered for an insulting low price, which I consider $5 to be, I thought that it would appeal to more people than it did. That's where my sense of disappointment is in general, that the idea was wrong in my head and for once I've given people too much credit.Saul and I went at this thing with the right intentions. We wanted to put out the music that we believe in. We want to do it as unencumbered and as un-revenue-ad-generated and un-corporate-affiliated as possible. We wanted it without a string attached, without the hassle, without the bait and switch, or the "Now you can buy the s@#$ version if you buy..." No, no, we said: "Here it is. At the same time, it'd be nice if we can cover the costs and perhaps make a living doing it."I'm not saying that this is a completely accurate test. Yes, there is a possibility that people downloaded it and the same people went back and downloaded it and paid for it and that can throw the numbers off. I get all that.It kind of gets into the bigger picture that you've had to face as a musician over the last few years, which in my mind was a bitter pill to swallow, but it's pretty far down the hatch with me now: the way things are, I think music should be looked at as free. It basically is. The toothpaste is out of the tube and a whole generation of people is accustomed to music being that way. There's a perception that you don't pay for music when you hear it on the radio or MySpace.There's a difficult transition in the mind of the musician and certainly in the mind of the record label. If that is the case, how does one adapt to that?How are you going to adapt to that?Reznor: For me, I choose the battles I can fight. In my mind, I think if there was an ISP tax of some sort, we can say to the consumer, "All music is now available and able to be downloaded and put in your car and put in your iPod and put up your a-- if you want, and it's $5 on your cable bill or ISP bill." [CH]http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9847788-7.html?tag=newsmap

Comments (20)

  1. brz says Sturgell it's funny that you compare the price tag to the cost of a Royale con queso. a couple of weeks ago all of the Wendy's that i drive by on my way to work had the following quote on their outdoor signs: "Upsize your combo for a free music download" i had intended to write my own post about it at the time, but ... well, i didn't (an interesting side note - the download is from Rhapsody). for me, that sign said a lot about how people feel about music now, so this story is just more evidence.
    Permalink posted 01/10/2008
  2. Vtshome says I'm actually surprised that 1 in 5 would pay $5 for the music. I would have expected maybe as low as 1 in 10. I bet if they had charged $7 that the number who paid would most likely stay about the same. Myself if decided to download I would pay but then I'm an old fart that can afford it. As discussed in a previous post, the music industry is going to have change the way they get paid for the music. Suing 13 year olds is not the best way to get your money because they aren't the one's who will pay the settlement, the parents will. "Well the parents should know what their kids are doing". Anyone with kids knows they aren't going to be able to control totally control their internet usage without standing over their shoulder every second watching their every move. That won't make for a well adjusted kid only one who learns advanced sneaking skills.
    Permalink posted 01/10/2008
  3. david hyman says he's nailed it. for better or worse, people's perception of music is free. i think radio has lent to this too. think about most people in front of a copy machine. nobody says to themselves, "i can't copy this. it's copyrighted!"
    Permalink posted 01/10/2008
  4. Sturgell says ^Good point. In other words if you want to shake up the industry, you'd have to change the way people see the product.
    Permalink posted 01/10/2008
  5. Augusts1 says I think it's also how people view the value of rap/hip-hop music. A portion of people don't view rap as a valid form of music even now. I recall back when rap first came into being in the '80s how people talked about it being a passing fad & had little value artistically. Although, rap has come a long way since those days, I think there are still many people who don't value rap/hip hop as an art form or don't see it as having equal value to other more popular forms of music.
    Permalink posted 01/10/2008
  6. TylerDurden says I can't but help be old fashioned in a new sense of the word...I pride myself in getting the CD, paying for it, reading the whole book, filling up on all kinds of pointless information to throw at the musically ignorant friends...even if I get a copy for free, I still like to get the original, ballyhoo...Call me a dick, it's my last name...
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  7. brz says DH - that's a good point about the copy machine... i never hesitate to make photocopies of stuff. on the other hand - i almost never copy a CD rather than buy it (i have about 10 copied CDs out of almost 280 on my iPod). i'm with Tyler all the way. i like to have the actual CD and the liner notes, and i'm happy to support an artist that i like or want to know more about. straying a little bit from the theme, where do you all think used CDs enter the picture here? i buy a good bit of stuff used... when i started doing that, i think it was fairly safe to assume i was getting stuff that people bought and didn't like, but now i think it's just as likely that if i buy something used, it's because someone who doesn't care about having the actual CD burned it, put it on an ipod or something, and sold the cd back...
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  8. TylerDurden says brz....yeah, used tape & record dealers used to be a frequented stop of mine, others who have either a drug problem and sell their classics for cash, or someone who doesn't have the sentimentality to keep the original...good old days are slipping away...glad to hear I'm not alone on wanting to support the artist's I like and love to have the originals....
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  9. Lady Miss Ian says Did you read Saul's side of the interview, too? That was kind of interesting. He's got a much more upbeat perspective on it. Trent's comments about the ISP fee/tax echo the theory put forth in the book "The Future of Music." The author of that asks the reader to look at music as you would a household utility - water, gas, electricity, cable TV. Do we expect water to flow when we turn on the tap? Yep. Do we expect it to be free? Nope, we pay the bill every month. I don't know how much I really agree with this theory, and with the side effect of it downgrading an artform into household utility, but it does make sense to a certain degree. This quote from Trent I found very interesting and astute: "But the manufacturing (of CDs) is the leak (to file-sharing sites) for everything and the leak is important to get around. The leak blows momentum." Very true, and a big motivation for doing digital only releases. Once a CD is ripped and posted online (or just some of the key songs), it knocks down physical sales. Like it's been said: Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free. Well, I think we all want to keep the cow alive so it can continue giving milk. Trent's and Radiohead's experiments have shown most people's internal ethics seem to have enough flexibility to feel ok about not paying for music. So the question continues to be what IS IT that WILL appeal to people's inner sense of fairness that will motivate them to part with their cash for music?
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  10. Lester Jonze says Quarter Pounders cost five bucks? Damn, I'm a dollar menu guy, myself.
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  11. TylerDurden says Dollar menu is the only way to go LJ!...I escpecially like that I can get a hard or soft taco for $0.89...Or a 5 piece nugget from Wendy's.... Lady Miss Ian...it is a little odd to degrade free downloads to a comparison of a household utility....Yeah, when I turn on the tap I expect it to come out, but not for free, but I don't turn on the internet and expect running water either....two seperate ideaologies, but I do understand what he means...still.
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  12. Zeroskilz says When it comes to purchasing versus downloading music, Trent nailed it for me. I download what I cannot easily get locally. Usually this means that it's pre-release stuff and that I just buy it later. But there are many albums that are just too difficult or expensive to get at a local shop. I refuse to pay $30 for a Japan-only release that featured 2 bonus songs not on the US version. I will download the bonus songs and not think twice about it. Like TD said, I take some pride in owning the album. The discs usually are not too much to look at, but the cover art and liner notes for some are just beautiful. After I started buying vinyl again, I started buying some records I already had the CD of just for art on the records themselves. Some are really beautiful. In all honesty, I'm generally not a hip hop/rap fan; so, Saul could be fairly popular in those circles and I wouldn't know. But if Trent thought everyone was going to pay for an, to me unknown, artist he produced, I guess he was wrong. I listened to the album and decided it wasn't for me. If it was, I would have paid. I paid for Radiohead's album without listening, but I know them. I don't know Saul. I would have blindly paid for Year Zero too. It's a matter of trust to me.
    Permalink posted 01/11/2008
  13. Brian McNevin says If people can get something for free, a lot of them aren't going to be willing to pay for it. It's human nature. That is all. Being a musician myself, of course, I think, that not paying for music is unethical. However, it's just the way, that the music business is now. Like it or not, it's just the reality, that every band and solo artist has to face in the modern world. It's plain economics. As for the stuff, that I record myself, I'm giving it away on the net as a means to promote myself. Since I don't have a band, and I'm not preforming live anywhere, I just want people to hear my music. So, for now, I don't care about not making money off of it. If I was playing out, I'd be printing copies of my stuff to sell at gigs. But for promotional reasons, I'd still be posting some of it on the net. If you want, you can look up my name, and hear the song, that I posted here. If you want a couple of free MP3 files of other stuff from me, you can just email me at: PlatinumFungus@Verizon.com
    Permalink posted 01/12/2008
  14. Sturgell says cool! thanks B.
    Permalink posted 01/12/2008
  15. Lighter Dusk says I think that this is a conversation about seventy years too late. As soon as we came up with copyable media, we had to see the slippery slope that was before us. How many poeple taped songs off the radio in the early 80's, or made copies of cassettes for friends by the late 80's with high speed dubbing machines sold by reputable dealers...obviously not illegal. Ditto with CDRs, CDRWs, VHS, DVDR, and now the modern mp3 and .mov formats, in addition to all the soft and hardware put out to convert everything from wax cylanders up into modern formats. I am a musician, but not one of any note...I am however a photographer of some note. I have posted pictures on my sites in the past, and then I magically see them other places. If no one thnks of copying a visual image as illegal, then why should they feel that way about an audio file? At what point does art become the world's? The moment the artist releases it. Now, I'll always have my prized origianal photographs and negatives. True fans of movies will buy the DVDs and VHSs to have in their colection forever. Likewise, true music fans will seek out the originals of their favorite music for their collections, to have a piece of their favorite band's history. But as far as new music goes...you can't put it back in the bag, box or jar. Art has always been free...the difference is that it's easier and faster than ever to share it with others...you'd think that musicians, whose primary sourcce of income tends to come from live shows, would love the free publicity...but who am I to say? -Dusk
    Permalink posted 01/15/2008
  16. movingtomontana says Yeah, free art, expensive t-shirts!
    Permalink posted 01/15/2008
  17. earthman says interesting concept, paying what you want. Live performance is where its at, I once heard and interview with an Aboriginal artist who had a exhibition in New York, this guy live in a tin shed out in the Aussie bush. He had made so much money that he had bought a new Toyota 4x4 for everyone in his little town and what he couldn't believe was that someone would pay so much money for his paintings when they weren't there to see them being painted. he thought they painting itself was just a by product. I guess for the grass roots muso like myself it would be good to not have to drive buses or clean the school and make enough money from music somehow to be able to do only that for a crust
    Permalink posted 01/16/2008
  18. movingtomontana says Me too. I have had a simmering resentment of the music industry for years. Any musician who isn't earning a comfortable living from it should :-). I am glad to see these companies flounder and break up. The market is so saturated with crappy bands, there is no real creative competition, it's all down to knowing the right people. If you had to prove your mettle night after night, I think it would raise the game for music in general. Let recordings be for promotion and not a source of major income, then it won't be worth while to hire a platoon of tape-ops to fix the vocal pitch and the timing of the rhythm section and edit out every breath and spit from a performance. If I like an act, I will give them my money. I will see them play, I will buy merch and I will even buy CDs if which will be cheaper if the money is for the band. Poor old Trent was deluded that people would appreciate his gesture. He is still thinking in the old model. I will grab your download and pay you nothing. Maybe his mate's record is crap? He just assumes it should have value.
    Permalink posted 01/16/2008
  19. River Lethe says Lighter Dusk, I think you're right. As far as the interview with Trent, well I think it's ok if he's disappointed. But what's important is that he is trying to be forward-thinking. And Saul's probably happy because Trent's endorsement has moved him into the public consciousness. But Saul's an artist, which is obvious when you hear the man speak or read his words (he's got several poetry books as well as the movie "Slam"), so I doubt he's as concerned about making dollars as he is having even a few people appreciate and take to heart what he's talking about in his lyrics. For me, Saul's album was definitely in my top ten for 2007, even higher than Year Zero, which I also loved. Hip-hop needs more artists like this and it would have more credibility with more people. I paid $5 for it, but I'd pay the full price for a cd if I had to again.
    Permalink posted 01/16/2008
  20. Scotch says Oddly enough, I'd be a whole lot more likely to buy an album for $5, even if there was a question that I might not like it as much as I'd hoped. Considering the talent involved on this album, it's not much of a gamble, and I've been burned on more expensive music...
    Permalink posted 01/20/2008

Comment on this Post

Login using email and password below.

Forgot Password?

Don't have an account?
Join MOG. It's Free!

© 2006-2009 Mog Inc. All Rights Reserved