Saving Face in Afghanistan...R'N'R 'N' Paulitics...(Ron Paul)
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This past week there has been a lot of discussion and debate on the continuing war in Afghanistan. Lasting twice as long as World War II and with no end in sight, the war in Afghanistan has been one of the longest conflicts in which our country has ever been involved. The situation has only gotten worse with recent escalations. The current debate is focused entirely on the question of troop levels. How many more troops should be sent over in order to pursue the war? The administration has already approved an additional 21,000 American service men and women to be deployed by November, which will increase our troop levels to 68,000. Will another 40,000 do the job? Or should we eventually build up the levels to 100,000 in addition to that? Why not 500,000 - just to be "safe"? And how will public support be brought back around to supporting this war again when 58 percent are now against it? I get quite annoyed at this very narrow line of questioning. I have other questions. We overthrew the Taliban government in 2001 with less than 10,000 American troops. Why does it now seem that the more troops we send, the worse things get? If the Soviets bankrupted themselves in Afghanistan with troop levels of 100,000 and were eventually forced to leave in humiliating defeat, why are we determined to follow their example? Most importantly, what is there to be gained from all this? We've invested billions of dollars and thousands of precious lives - for what?
The truth is it is no coincidence that the more troops we send the worse things get. Things are getting worse precisely because we are sending more troops and escalating the violence. We are hoping that good leadership wins out in Afghanistan, but the pool of potential honest leaders from which to draw have been fleeing the violence, leaving a tremendous power vacuum behind. War does not quell bad leaders. It creates them. And the more war we visit on this country, the more bad leaders we will inadvertently create. Another thing that war does is create anger with its indiscriminate violence and injustice. How many innocent civilians have been harmed from clumsy bombings and mistakes that end up costing lives? People die from simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time in a war zone, but the killers never face consequences. Imagine the resentment and anger survivors must feel when a family member is killed and nothing is done about it.
When there are no other jobs available because all the businesses have fled, what else is there to do, but join ranks with the resistance where there is a paycheck and also an opportunity for revenge? This is no justification for our enemies over there, but we have to accept that when we push people, they will push back. The real question is why are we there at all? What do our efforts now have to do with the original authorization of the use of force? We are no longer dealing with anything or anyone involved in the attacks of 9/11. At this point we are only strengthening the resolve and the ranks of our enemies. We have nothing left to win. We are only there to save face, and in the end we will not even be able to do that.
-Ron Paul-
Comments (16)
Our President has backed himself into a corner concerning the war if AfPak. Throughough-out his campaign He portrayed the war in Iraq as a (Bush) war of choice (he was right) & Afghanistan as a war of neccessity. (right, again).
....The Taliban was overthrown with a flick of the wrist.G. W. Bush, being a true leader, learned from recent history, & made one of the best decisions he made as a tactical war-time leader. He CHOSE iraq as his battlefield in the war on terror. & although our leaders on the left & a compliant media continued to pooh-pooh such notions....every leader of Al-qaeda across the mid-east echoed Bush's call & they declared Iraq the central battle agaist the west.
....So President NOT BUSH, to appease his extreme left base, all of whom had declared The war in Iraq lost years before, has largely turned his back on the emerging success story in Iraq, leaving the Iraqi in the street very worried....and has focused his attention on the necessary war in Afghanistan....with rules of engagement designed to inflict maximum damage on OUR TROOPS. We were assured in March of this year that President NOT BUSH had a clear & decisive strategy for fighting the war in Afghanistan & that he was putting his hand-picked General to insure its carried out. Then he tied the General's hands & feet, gagged him, took away his rifle & sent him to fight the war.
....On his left, the President is facing increasingly bitter & vicious attacks for increasing troop strength. The Pentagon is filled with Political Military men afraid to be noticed lest they be besmirched by the NOT BUSH Whitehouse, as recently happened with his current general who had the audacity to refuse to alter his estimates of troop strength needed for the mission as stated.
....truth be told we need a much much smaller military footprint in Afghanistan. Smaller and very very lethal. We have no business trying to build a nation for a people uninterested in building their own.
Al-Qaeda is the enemy. Find them Kill them. That should be our mission.
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Stayin' in the bunker tonight..I am.
Mostly in agreeance here, except for the praise of Bush and the assertion that the war in Iraq was given up as lost. We didn't like the war because it was wrong to start it in the first place. Compliant media allowed us to go to Iraq..everything after that is tainted. What exactly did we win there? And when will we ever leave?
History seems to repeat itself and lessons never learned. Afghanistan is the new Vietnam and Pakistan is the new Cambodia. We spread the war in Vietnam chasing the VC into Cambodia which ultimately toppled the government of Cambodia, leading to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge --- 6 million died. Now we are spreading the Afghan war into Pakistan - this strategy will lead to the toppling of the current Pakistan government and the radicalization of a Nuclear Pakistan. We have a bunch of intellectual knuckleheads running things - War without end is the outcome and our children nothing more than meat to be butchered around the world.
# Cody B Trusted Mogger (Remove) Cody B says Stayin' in the bunker tonight..I am. Mostly in agreeance here, except for the praise of Bush and the assertion that the war in Iraq was given up as lost.
...You ARE kidding, right Cody? I mean direct quotes "The war in Iraq has been lost" Joeseph P. Biden. I don't wanna waste my morning on this or i'd provide links a-plenty.
But i know you're just jerking my chain.
....At the assertion of Bush's brilliance in choosing the battlefield.....the thought took me by surprise to......but its what is being taught at the Naval War College & when it was explained to me....it made sense. No, do i subscribe fully to the thought? I don't know, I'm still looking into that.
....As for your dearly held opinion that the invasion of Iraq was just plain wrong........thats your opinion......
kestrel6. My god man!! Thank you for proving Bush's brilliance!! & The Pakistanis have bought off the terrorists we battle by agreeing that certain areas are "safe Havens", free from Pakistani government control.
.....We are fighting this war in a way that would be laughable if people weren't dying.
......meanwhile our President is mewling about cable news shows.
There are a million theories in war school, just like there are ideas here.
I'm sure the idea of "choosing a battlefield" for a "war on terror" is one of them...that certainly was a selling point he used..later, after the war started.
I also know there are other theories...Bush chose a theory and then built a case for pre-determined,pre-emptive war..
Again, I disagree with going to war, thinking that American blood and treasure was not well spent there. Did we kill potential terrorists there? Sure. Did we create the conditions for more militants to rise up..yes.
Look, I understand your position..you support going there, the show of power in the region, the killing of the enemy there..as you note, I disagree..it is my opinion, of course.
But we agree on Afghanistan, so hooray for that...
Do I agree that politics have shaped the war plans/opposition on both fronts for both parties and both prezzes..yup.
But we agree on Afghanistan, so hooray for that...
yeah, the cork's are poppin.
If we both agree, it must be the right thing to do..
....or we're in real deep shit!!! LMAO.
Ever seen the movie Charlie Wilson's War, or read the books the movie is based on?
We blew it a long time ago.
@ Ghost......Its a work of fiction! "based on real incidents".
Kestrel6: I've have to agree with you there.
"War without end is the outcome and our children nothing more than meat to be butchered around the world"
That's a great & powerful statement!
CodyB: "But we agree on Afghanistan, so hooray for that..." It's a problem that should have been done with years ago. Although I argree with you on most of everything else you say.
deadman...: I really respect your opinion, & usually in agreeance with what you have to say Jeff. GWB is where we have to agree to disagree on. You have heard all the arguments about first going into Iraq, & I'm someone who side's with that opinion. Many there were no WMD's, which somehow put me in the liberal camp back then which I'm not. There's the school of thought that the US is suppose to set a positive example to the world, & the one big example I see here is that it's OK to invade a country without a good reason. These wars are ruining our county,& creating an attitude of revolt here in the US with them affecting the economy in a negatve way. This thing going to bite those in power here in the ass. I been watching CSPAN a lot lately, some big issue is do we need to be there, how are we going to pay for this, when are going to bring our troops home's which are all valid questions. Eisinhower's speech seems to rain true on a lot of this. How much more is it going to cost to finish the job? The job was suppose to be done years ago.
@RGM. Surely you remember in the very earliest days of the war in Afghanistanwe were closing in. Our intel. had uncovered Osama's cellphone service provider. & then Cody's sacred NY TIMES broke the story for all the world to read, in spite of pleas from everyone not to.
Bush read history & read of all the fools throughout history who thought they could fight the Afghanis in Afghanistan. He Chose the plains...not the mountains.
Argue motive if you will, agrue method if you will, but as strategy in THE LARGER WAR....it made tactical sense
I think we should have be done with this war by now. They are just dragging their feet at this point, & putting our troops in harms way when they don't need to be.