Music: Cure Or Curse?

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   wdog says As a person who suffered depression in younger years, I was blessed with a piano, and spent many hours playing and singing along to songs, some lifting my spirit, some echoing my despair, but I think it quite often kept me sane.. and likewise, alone in a room listening to my music, I received something that I think younger people don't get enough of today - time for introspection. To figure it out. Maybe the best combo - a walkman and a bike or a run.. so, yes, I do think music "hath charms to sooth the savage beast" of depression. Regarding the effect of music on youth.. that's a tough one.. I went through the musical rebellion years (in my day it was Alice Cooper).. but had the upbringing to teach me right and wrong.. But, now that I'm older with teen-age children of my own - I do worry.. particularly over the image that women are bombarded with.. especially with rap music. I don't think I ever saw, in my day, music that so constantly belittles and objectifies women like some rap music.. and with children who are both committed to rap as their main staple of music, it worries me. I have listened and appreciate a lot of it.. oddly enough, I find Eminem less objectionable than Snoop Dog - his anger is honest and pure and women in his life have obviously had power to hurt him.. where with Snoop Dog, women are more like furnishings or objects to use and discard.. I try and turn my kids on to music that has a message - where there is a desire to change the world, and I appreciate some of the hints I've received here.. and try to engage in active conversation over the parts of the music I find offensive.. I'm sure they'll find their way, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy and approve of music that diminishes the world, as opposed to enlightening it.

   Permalink posted 02/11/2008
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   Jo says wdog, thanks for your great post. I think I can relate to some extent to your experience of the positive effect of music when going through depression, having suffered from depression myself. Your points on introspection are strong, empowering and refreshing - and certainly gave me a lightbulb moment - I had not even thought of it in that particular way, yet it makes so much sense! I think the points you made in respect of rap music are valid (see my post from last year reviewing the Wu Tang Clan gig in London - http://mog.com/Jo/blog_post/98134 - re Method Man's questionable on-stage antics during that gig). As I no longer have the opportunity to engage with my own stepdaughters, and knowing that they are not growing up in an environment of education and debate on topics like these, I can no longer gauge what 'makes them tick' in that respect, or how much and what type of self worth they are developing. I often worry what and how much they take from, say, songs such as Black Eyed Peas' "Where Is The Love" or Destiny's Child's "Independent Women" on one side, and, say, songs like Black Eyed Peas "My Humps" or any of Snoop Dogg's pimp persona rhymes. Will they take the same approach as I did growing up to the soundtrack of music like Red Hot Chili Pepper's "Sex Rap", Prince's "Darling Nicky", Skid Row's "Get The XXXX Out" and events like Rob Halford's excellent defence in the Judas Priest-Suicide law suit, the introduction of the Tipper Sticker, and Frank Zappa's testimony to the US Senate? Hence my desire to publicly (re-)open any such debates, on places like MOG, hopefully challenging people to think, re-think, and perhaps open their own debates in their own online and real-life environments, or maybe just for people read and feel empowered - in that respect, your last paragraph hits the nail right on the head. Thanks for your magnificent input.

   Permalink posted 02/11/2008
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   wdog says You are way too kind.. it's funny, but I think your point about at least understanding what your kids are listening to is sooo on point. You can't really engage something that you don't get - and it doesn't mean you have to approve of it.. ..I actually have fun arguing with my kids over my contention that to some extent, some rap, is the equivalent of Tom Sawyer painting his fence.. he does a con-job to make his friends think that painting a fence is just sooo cool, and they line up to take turns painting.. so, using the analogy, some rappers are growing up in circumstances where violence and drugs are endemic to their experience, and so rather than fighting it, and criticizing it, they try and send the "con" that their life experience is "cool", and so, like lemmings, many youth then line up to get their peice of the experience.. but the reality is that, like painting a fence on a hot summer day, selling drugs, treating women badly, gang involvement and general violence, is not "fun" or "cool"... at this point, my kids are telling me that I have no clue, etc., etc., and all I do is say - I'm just telling you what I think - you figure it out for yourself, but, I don't see how 50 cent taking nine shots, doing X, and treating women like ho's is..uh.. a roadmap to happiness? Some songs show that music is for losers to pretend they aren't.

   Permalink posted 02/11/2008
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   darmuzz says My teenage daughter listens to a lot of emo and goth music, some of which is very dark indeed. (I find it amusing that she is just discovering bands like The Cure, and I am rather relived that she hasn't developed an obsession with Joy Division). I find gangsta hip-hop and death metal/black metal more offensive than what she currently listens to. I keep waiting for her tastes to get worse! We discuss the lyrics a lot. She seems to understand that the artists capture the MELODRAMA that is teen angst, and it can be therapeutic. We both giggle over lyrics like any of HIM's songs (e.g. "Love's the funeral of hearts /And an ode for cruelty/ When angels cry blood /On flowers of evil in bloom") - they are delightfully ridiculous! I think the more important thing is to have some balance in your life, if not in your musical tastes, so one's life doesn't begin to echo the sentiments in the songs...I think most kids understand that their musical heroes are playing for a "proto-typical teenager" and they believe themselves to be much smarter than that! (Which is why, just like us Mog-snobs, the young'uns move on as soon as their favourite cult band gets popular.) Ultimately most adults (myself included) have limited and entrenched tastes in music, movies and books, and a lot of that is left over from our teen years! Let's say I am into vampire novels and X-Men, I can still have a functional and happy adult life...we all like to believe we have a dangerous or mysterious side that is reflected in the music we listen to...well, unless you are a Bon Jovi fan :) On the flip side, just about everyone has some musical guilty pleasures. My daughter listens to AFI and My Chemical Romance, but she occasionally lets it slip that she likes the latest song by Mika or Kanye West!

   Permalink posted 02/11/2008
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   Jo says I do find discussions of that kind generally interesting, and challenging. I remember on one such occasion expressing similar thoughts to yours on 50 Cent, and being given the response, "Yeah, but 50 Cent is now a millionaire...", and responding back "So was 2Pac, but he's dead"... If we believe everything we see, then getting shot, doing X, treating women like hos might seem a road map to 'success', and we may even be as naive to think sucess as such by definition equals happiness. Explanations may lie in what we don't get to see... such as those who never make it in the first place, those who end up dead before their time, those who end up in jail serving lengthy sentences, or those who never make it to rehab. The rich and famous can afford different standards of healthcare, legal aid and rehabilitation, while Joe Average might have to make do with what's on offer, if anything at all; for him there is no red carpet into psych ward or rehab, at best a 12-month waiting list (if he can survive that long). Back to the aforementioned discussion, I wonder how I would have dealt with being a teenager here and now; in my teenage days you had to achieve the success before you could have (and show off) the trophy luxury possessions, you had to be famous to make it onto a red carpet - now, at times, it seems stepping onto a red carpet can make you famous and trophies are available on credit. Is it harder for teenagers in this day and age to keep their feet firmly on the ground than it might have been for me 15-20 years ago? Does this possibly 'warped' reality of today perhaps make some people (regardless of age) more susceptible to the influence of myths and realities communicated through lyrics, music videos, and reality TV? Perhaps a 'back to basics' fad/trend wouldn't go amiss right now, and I mean that in respect of both topics in my original post; perhaps if musicians went back to their music and steered away from politics, their power would be positively bigger, better, and stronger. Music has healing power, can politics ever have that same effect? And perhaps if we turned away our attention from those famous just for being someone's relative or (former) spouse, or for going out in public not wearing any underwear, we could start recognising and appreciating talent and skill again; that way perhaps our younger generations could take healthier lessons from those who they elected to be their role models?

   Permalink posted 02/11/2008
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   wdog says Oh, you've hit a soft spot in my heart, Jo.. a lot of my posts here ask that we re-examine what we see as having "value" and as being admirable. Too often we swallow the media pill of what "success" is. Our obsession with celebrity I think is truly warping our society.. really, do I give a damn who Oprah Winfrey or Robert deNiro vote for? Why should I.. but, over and over, we get to watch literally hours of media coverage on the subject. In some respects, I do think a lot of the difficulty we have with our youth can be traced to media.. back in the day, while we had celebrities, they really were "other worldly" people, and the coverage wasn't nearly as common or intense.. but now, when mainstream news like CNN give us hour after hour of the latest Britney saga or whatever, it's like celebrities are our close cousins.. and so, while it used to be the quiet geeky kid in the corner had to compare himself to the football captain (who a few years later was often driving a milk truck or something else mundane) now, he compares himself to Michael Jordan and Brad Pitt.. and I think at some point, the thread that ties him to everyone else as fellow "humans" just snaps.. and then you have Columbine. I fully support the battle for a "back to basics" approach to society.. let's really look at valuing the contributions of people that truly are worthy of our appreciation, our parents, our teachers, police, firemen, the grocery clerk that goes the extra mile to help you find something in the store.. there are so many real people that actually matter to us, it's a shame we are all sold a bill of goods that Anna Nicole matters, or that Brittney matters, or that Oprah Matters.. cause, in my world, well, they don't.

   Permalink posted 02/12/2008
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   darmuzz says It's quite a balancing act between "media world" and "real world," and the line keeps getting blurrier...

   Permalink posted 02/13/2008
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   Jo says True words, but therefore I think it's good to keep the dialogue open in every way, as I do think it may support (especially impressionable) people establishing and/or maintaining a healthy balance.

   Permalink posted 02/15/2008