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What's So Special About Bitches Brew or Cody Wants Me Dead, I Am Certain Of It .....

Posted over 4 years ago

Listen and read. Enjoy Jazz on Saturday.


It may or may not be common knowledge that Cody B. and I are pretty good friends. We met on MOG and have seen each other a few times, we even call each other on a semi regular basis and talk about whatever (MOG politics and happenings mostly and of course music). Well one of our conversations turned to ideas for posts. It was Cody's idea for me to do a anti band post. So here it goes and hopefully my Jazz cred will see me through.Late in the year of 1969 Miles Davis started to record what many people consider a turning point in Jazz. Maybe many isn't strong enough of a word, most if not all people consider it a turning point, including myself, to an extent.Yet, I can't help but think "Brew" was inevitable. That's right, he has been given credit for something that was going to happen anyway and Bitches Brew was more of a jazz Super Group created to kick ass. *What is so flipping great about this record?*I got 4 words for you:*Ornette Coleman and free jazz*Davis' influence since his collab. with Gil Evans from '49 to '50 and the release of "Birth of the Cool" is undeniable. Fronting bands that include players from "heaven's jazz ensemble" and still breathing players. I'd list just the greatest, but I would be still typing it tomorrow morning, safe to say he played with the best of the best. The talent pool was there. Another aspect of this jazz singularity was the advent of the long play record. Back in the late 40's and early 50's Columbia (whom Davis was contracted to at the time) produced an LP format conducive to epic flights of fancy in the music biz. Cashing into the fact musicians could cram 26 minutes of music on one album side was liberating. Imagine having the ability to record a 15 minute jam, with enough time to record 2 standards and still have another side to do the same thing on. 6 tracks for 2 bucks. The record companies saw dollar signs. Ornette Coleman is really to blame. As the, and I mean the pioneer of free jazz, Coleman took off the "shackles of great communication" between the player and the listener. His brand of jazz is hard to listen to. It grates on your nerves most of the time. Sure Coleman did some standards and almost straight bop, but when he flew, man did he fly, like right out the door man, ... dig.John Coltrane was deeply influenced by Coleman. During his early years as a solo player and band leader Coltrane dipped in the free jazz well, and yet somehow kept it all together to the end. With Coleman, you were lucky if he slowed down enough to drop you off before he spun it up, all over again. Would I be way off the mark if I said, "Davis copped Coltrane and that is *Bitches Brew*"?
This Coltrane track comes to you courtesy of "Lester Jonze":http://mog.com/Lester_Jonze/blog_post/116865


Comment as you must. Maybe we could hash this one out together.
1

Comments (35)

  1. I am
    I am says I have to say this: Joe Zawinul hits all of the minors on "Sanctuary".
    Permalink posted 10/26/2007
  2. Dzendvokh
    Dzendvokh says I'm enjoying it tonight.
    Permalink posted 10/26/2007
  3. I am
    I am says Dzen, I am not saying I completely dislike it. I just want to know why we put it on a pedestal?
    Permalink posted 10/26/2007
  4. soulrocket
    soulrocket says i dont know much about free jazz, chris. but i like the ornette coleman track. i could not finnish to listen the track made by miles.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  5. I am
    I am says That track was John Coltrane Dan:) Here's wiki's definition/nondefinition of "free jazz":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_jazz Truth is soul, I don't know much about either. Most of it, like "Sanctuary" sounds like a 10 minute warm up to me. I never got into it seriously. "Psalm" by Coltrane holds my attention, even when it's cashing in at 7 minutes. I usually say "if you have to explain the piece to me, it ain't jazz." to sum up my likes in the genre. Coleman was just the begining, there are pieces in "modal jazz":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_jazz that freak me out.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  6. soulrocket
    soulrocket says hahah sorry, i just woke up 10 mins ago... john coltrane indeed :-)
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  7. I am
    I am says 10 mins. isn't that like, 1 pm your time?
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  8. soulrocket
    soulrocket says 14:13 right now... i went to bed at 6:30 yesterday. we go out really late here, dont expect much action before 2 in the morning. people usualy go out to have diner between 21:30 and 23:00 hours... then join the pub for some beverages until 2 and then join the discos until 7 in the morning... then there is still more disco options until 5 in the evening. actualy you can keep partying for the whole weekend until monday morning before going to work.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  9. Cody B
    Cody B says First off, thank you for the prompt obeying. The post may be hurt by the fact that you used my name in it, now that I am associated with the Disco movement...Anyway, you seem to be more dissappointed with the critical reception of the record than the record itself. I think you are right about the similarties with Coltrane. I could listen to A Love Supreme all the way through, no problem..It's like church..I don't feel the same about Bitches and I'm not sure why it is called Rock or Rock-esque. It's all about Betty, though, she's the one that got Miles to go this way.. If she was my wife and asked me to change things up a bit I might be inclined to do so.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  10. soulrocket
    soulrocket says hahahahhh cody, now you belong to the cheese dpt, man. one of the things i love about mog is that it helps me to know what kind of stuff regular people that never would buy a soul or funk album could enjoy. if i posted for a specialised soul/funk blog the selection would be slightly different because people wouldnt like to listen to the classics or the obvious picks. that being said, betty davis was hot.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  11. Dzendvokh
    Dzendvokh says You know I was just saying I was enjoying it tonight (as in friday night) as opposed to what your post said (enjoy it on Saturday). I got your point though. I don't feel versed enough in history to have a strong opinion. I do agree with Cody, I don't understand why the big fuss over "Rock" fusion, I don't hear much rock going on at all. I do have a question though. What about recording techniques? I have read a little about how big an influence Teo Maceo was to Miles' sound during that period and that he did some really innovative stuff. Here's one that I really dig, didn't make the original album. I cut it at 12 minutes or so but it runs on for another 8 it could probably stand to be even shorter. A little too long to be running over the same melody IMO. I think the percussion is great in this song, and it has that lazy, drug addled feel in spades. ~cf2k53dDUf9.mp3~
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  12. I am
    I am says Dzen, I thought you were listening and were saying ...... well you knew what I meant and now vice versa. Good pick on the Guinnevere. Check out "Sketches of Spain". You tell me how closely they resemble each other. Record in 1960, It proves Miles was playing with these rythyms and tonalities long before "Bitches". Cody, I thought the same thing. Your credentials have been sullied. I think Davis' biggest influence on Bitches was Wanye Shorter, Chick Corea, and Larry Young. I could be wrong. And your right, the album doesn't completely suck, its just the prominence the music industry gave it that sticks in my craw. Rock or Rock - esque? Prob. the epic scope of the project. Is there even a common theme?
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  13. Cody B
    Cody B says What credentials?..They said this job required no music knowledge and light typing.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  14. meko
    meko says Try some pat metheny or george winston!
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  15. I am
    I am says Light typing ..... I thought the ad said light whining. Who knew?
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  16. Cody B
    Cody B says It's kvetching, not whining,dammit!
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  17. Cody B
    Cody B says Damn, we gotta pick up the pace here...let's switch over to dismantling the Stone Roses myth.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  18. Bartleby
    Bartleby says First off, whatever happened to the original of your post: "My Bitches Brew Tastes Funny or Cody Wants Me Dead, I Am Certain Of It .....?" Secondly, I'd like to thank you for your concise and crunchy input on Bitches Brew which to me have always been a most delectable mix. (May I digress a bit and thank my friend Y. who bought this "milestone" of a record for me when I was feeling under the weather? Merci Mr Y). Coleman, Davis, Coltrane. You are dealing with the trinity of modern jazz here, my dear Yo Soy. The long play record has also furthered the demand on the jazz listeners. Tracks such as "Pharaoh's Dance" while pleasing to Miles' unconditional must have disconcerted more than one "common" listener more used to skilfully etched themes such Charlie Parker's. Finally, I'd like to thank Miles for choosing slow-handed musicians such as John McLaughlin. Bitches Brew introduced me to so many great muscians. If only for the brilliant line-up, it should be handed out to all music lovers. For avenuestylee who's always interested in knowing the exact personnel, here are the players:
    * Miles Davis - trumpet
    * Wayne Shorter - soprano saxophone
    * Bennie Maupin - bass clarinet
    * Chick Corea - electric piano (solo on "Miles Runs The Voodoo Down")
    * Larry Young - electric piano
    * Joe Zawinul - electric piano
    * John McLaughlin - guitar
    * Dave Holland - bass
    * Harvey Brooks - electric bass
    * Lenny White - drum set
    * Billy Cobham - drum set
    * Jack DeJohnette - drum set
    * Don Alias - congas, drum set only on "Miles Runs The Voodoo Down"
    * Juma Santos - shaker, congas
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  19. Cody B
    Cody B says Yeah I liked that title...why did they need all those guys on this record?Are the heavy emphasis on production and all the editing what make it a Rock record? True indeed there are a lot of cool cats on here, I wonder if Betty suggested 'em.. I really dig Larry Young!
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  20. Bartleby
    Bartleby says Why they needed so many blokes to replace a light-bulb, Cody? Your guess is as good as mine. But I must say they do look good on stage Especially on "Live Evil" (see Max Load's post)
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  21. I am
    I am says Bartleby, The first title wasn't gritty enough; I changed to see if I could raise a little ire. Sadly this didn't happen. Cody smells fresh meat. He senses fear.... feeds on it. Only there isn't much controversy going on. I have never been described as crunchy, thanks. Cody, *Are the heavy emphasis on production and all the editing what make it a Rock record?* You probably more right than you know, with this statement.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  22. Cody B
    Cody B says I don't profess to know..just asking. Then there's the marketing element..New sells.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  23. Dzendvokh
    Dzendvokh says MOGs just a big ole love fest, can't get anyone worked up around here. I don't think it is a rock record. I couldn't track down that interview with Teo Maceo, amazing, something that's not on the web, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and just go from my sketchy memory, but I don't think you could edit a rock album, with a traditional song structure the way Teo Maceo edited In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew (and others?). I wouldn't profess to know the technical details but in essence he made a lot of damn splices with a razor blade (crazy in this day and age of point and click) and it was very experimental stuff for the time. I get the sense that he was very much a part of the creative process. I see this editing approach going hand in hand with the kind of freedom from structure that Miles' music represented. A freedom that may very well have begun with Coleman. Am I defending the "Bitches Brew on a Pedestal" position, no not really but I do think that aspect of the album was an important one, and one that I don't believe is present with Coleman or Coltrane. Personally, A Love Supreme is *IT* for me.
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  24. Dzendvokh
    Dzendvokh says You know it helps when you spell the guy's name correctly ;-) The article is "here":http://remixmag.com/production/tips_techniques/teo_macero_interview/
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  25. Cody B
    Cody B says Dz, I think I remember reading a lot about the editing process in the notes of Sketches of Spain (Gil/MIles box) and there must be tons of material about it in the Bitche's Box. As a guy who has edited audio tape with a razor, I can totally appreciate what Teo did and I also appreciate Producers in general (From Rudy van Gelder to David Axelrod to Adrian Sherwood to Masters At Work). We agree it isn't Rock, We agree it's a masterpiece of production,but Is that Jazz? I don't believe the critical crowd could call this record groundbreaking for just the editing..no matter how great an accomplishment it is, could they. Is editing the thing that pushes Jazz forward? Or are they drinking the kool-aid? Dz, I'm not asking you to champion the cause, I'm just asking in general. Oh well, If we can half-argue about something, I 'spose I should listen to it more or just buy it in the first place. I guess we're just reiterating the arguments the record has spawned since it came out. This must be it's greatness. I guess my initial impression when I heard it back in the day was this; I kept hearing the critical voices saying it was like rock or funky. For me that funk never was felt, and so I moved on. But then there is a whole batch of "funk" ,which higly technical, jazz or jazz like musicians play that does not get it done for me. In summation:I don't feel the rock or funk and I just don't understand the jazz. This is why my credential should be yanked, not 'cause of my whining about the typing. Thanks to all for helping me figure out why I might want to listen to this record. Now for Butches Brew "I don't need to be convinced":http://mog.com/Cody_B/blog_post/84287
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  26. Cody B
    Cody B says Great article Dz.. What Teo said in the article- They said that it ‘wasn't jazz,’ but the point is, what is jazz? Jazz is composition. I mean, if you take it out of its infancy and really do something with it — that's staying true to what jazz is.” I dunno, if I could just get Perry Mason to cross examine him, I know we can get him to admit it isn't jazz!
    Permalink posted 10/27/2007
  27. Dzendvokh
    Dzendvokh says Oh they are drinking Kool-aid fer sure! Again I agree, it's not rock and I don't think it's all too Funky in the generally understood meaning of the term. I was not arguing that the editing process was *THE* definitive factor that made it such critics darling. Just that it was a factor in the overall sound. Anyway, I feel my knowledge is stretched too thin already to have much more to say, and as you pointed out, this argument or something like it has probably been going on unabated since the albums' release, so it aint gonna be "resolved", so I say just listen, and if ye like, then ye like, if ye don't well go get some more Kool-Aid and see if that helps.
    Permalink posted 10/28/2007
  28. I am
    I am says You guys are pansies! I was hoping for blood.
    Permalink posted 05/28/2008
  29. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says ??Would I be way off the mark if I said, "Davis copped Coltrane and that is Bitches Brew"??? Only by about six counties.
    Permalink posted 05/28/2008
  30. I am
    I am says I guess I found it. Adam, 'splain yourself.
    Permalink posted 05/28/2008
  31. Lester Jonze
    Lester Jonze says I think Coltrane weighed heavily on Miles, maybe showed him his own mortality. If Miles is copping anything, it's the attitude of Coltrane's approach to the music, his outlook, his absolute courage to abandon the hard bop he for years helped create. His sense of music as the higher purpose, controlling him rather than the other way around. I think Miles implanted that into his own music, in everything he recorded after Miles in the Sky. I mean you have to admit that for a three album period (??Sorcerer, Nefertiti, and Miles in the Sky??) Miles drifted laterally. His music was listless and without purpose. If you listen to ??ESP?? and ??Miles Smiles??, there is an anger and an edge present in the music which all but disappeared in 67/68. Miles took Coltrane's purpose, mixed it with his own anger he always had carried around in him and basically came up with what they call fusion. If you take his albums starting with ??Bitches Brew?? and going through ??Get Up With It??, you see this arc in the violence and aggression in his music. On The Corner is one of the most violent, angry sounding albums I have heard. That's not at all what Coltrane's music was about, completely the opposite. By the time Miles was finished making music, the arc comes to it's end, he is tired, he has no more anger to share. Now, as for comparing ??Bitches Brew?? to Free Jazz, I think BB has far more structure than most people give it credit for upon casual listening, or maybe that's not casual listening for most people, but I wouldn't understand why not. Miles was listening almost exclusively to rock music at the time, soul and modern R&B music. Again, if he took anything, it was the attitude brought by some of the freer aspects of these musics. He took the principle, but not the application of the principle. The rhythm is structured and supportive, the solos are based on an opening theme repeating throughout, or on the chord structure of the same. But to fully understand this music, you have to hear ??Silent Way?? first, that's really the key, the bridge to the destination, the journey is just as important. Miles transforms out of his weaker late sixties period, gets some of his fire back and resumes the journey forward. Again, with Miles it's always about structure. There may be a lot of improv, but you can bet Miles had instructed everyone what to do and when to do it, because he had already heard it in his head. In the end, I there wasn't much free about it at all. I really think Miles' music lends itself more and more to Ambient music, sheets of sound. In that way Miles and Coltrane are very similar. Remember, Miles was the teacher, maybe he had taught Coltrane about it years before and Coltrane developed it and made it his own. Who knows? Not me, I just like the music. Dig on this. ??Spanish Key??. ~u5hk1KTht4e.mp3~
    Permalink posted 05/28/2008
  32. I am
    I am says Adam, that track just rocks me. It really does. Coleman gave Miles the key to the shackles and Coltrane was the birth father. Completely inevitable.
    Permalink posted 05/28/2008
  33. Cody B
    Cody B says

    I'll give Lester the gold on this one. See how he waited in the cut til we were out of ideas, came in and won the day. WORD!

    Permalink posted 09/10/2008
  34. I am
    I am says

    Oh yeah. Totally shanked us.

    Permalink posted 09/10/2008
  35. Cody B
    Cody B says

    I wonder what other innocent anti-some great album posts you could do to make people leap onto their puters..Bartleby also was moved to jump in on this. My fave of all time was wdog's 2 anti-Joy Division posts.

    Anti posts used to come up a lot. Another thing missing from the yay-mog0sphere of today.

    Permalink posted 09/12/2008

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