An open letter to those who voted for Obama
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Artist:
First, let me say congratulations. I know you're happy that your candidate won, and I can't blame you. It was a hard-fought battle, and as McCain said later, the American people chose who they wanted, and made it very clear. So, enjoy your moment of victory.
However, I have some issues I would like to mention. In the days before and since the election, I have been hearing more and more outrageous claims that, quite frankly, amuse me at the best of times, and scare me at the worst. I don't know how it came about, but the cult of personality that surrounds Barack Obama is so huge now that it's hard to tell where the man ends and the myth begins. But please allow me to offer a few humble observations:
Barack Obama is NOT the messiah, nor is he the second coming of one. Please stop treating him as such. He will not bring about world peace, an end to world hunger, a cure for cancer, or the abolishment of poverty.
While we're on the subject, he will also not cause all the gas prices to drop, he will not pay off your mortgage, and he will not lower your taxes. Or any of the other outrageous claims I've been hearing misguided people make over the last couple of days. Even if he wanted to, he couldn't without the approval of a lot of other people, and a lot of time. So stop treating him like he actually has that much power. He's just the president, not the king.
I do understand the significance of this particular election, and what it means. I don't want that to be lost. I think this excellent post by Troy Powers really, more than anything else, drove home what this election means to some people, and I completely respect that, and admire the achievement. However, the notion that this victory in some way erases, or covers up, all the years of hatred and bigotry, doesn't sit well with me. And I'm sorry, but the thought that this victory even makes things better today strikes me as ludicrous. Is there anyone out there who can honestly say that Obama's win cured them of their racism? Or caused them to forget the pain that they've endured, or the misery that's been inflicted on them? Is there a white supremacist out there that feels different today because of it? Is there a boy out there who, as Whoopi put it, pulled up his baggy pants because of it? I doubt it. And to those of you who would think that maybe I just don't get it because I happen to be white (and I was told that earlier today), well, then all I would say in response to that is thank you for proving my point.
And again, while we're talking unity here, can anyone please explain to me how Obama's victory will unite the country? Please? I know plenty of people who are pissed about how the election went. And afraid of what's going to happen. And convinced Obama is going to ruin this country and grind it into the dirt (to those, I would direct you to the end of my fourth paragraph, above). No one—I repeat, NO ONE—feels differently about the political spectrum today than they did three days ago. So how are those reds who hated the blues, and vice versa, going to all of a sudden come together in some Magical American Square Dance of Joy and Love? The reds still think the blues are bleeding-heart, sniveling liberals who would rather step on an unborn baby than arrest a criminal, and the blues still think the reds are backwards, ignorant, slack-jawed yokels who would rather shoot their guns into the ass of some endangered primate than give a buck to the starving waif of an orphan down the street.
And you know what? They're both dead wrong. All we are is a bunch of people who want the best for our country, but have different ideas about how to achieve it. But somewhere along the way hatred got injected into the argument. And that hatred has not gone away. Not now. Not yet. And it probably won't, for a long, long time. And you can bet that no matter which man won on Tuesday, that hatred would still be festering today.
So please, give the man credit for the hard fought win, and give him the respect deserved any president elect. And give him the honor he deserves for breaking the racial barrier in such an amazing fashion. Give him all that, please. But don't give him more credit than he deserves.
Locating MOG account...
Comments (61)
The people have indeed spoken, we have a new president and he is a Democrat. Let's hope he doesn't get the same level of respect and cooperation that The last President got.
agreed.
you know, the audience you're tryin' to reach tuned out as soon as you doubted Sen Obama's divinity.
i hear you chuck. you have comunicated in a more eloquent way what i am not able. it sums up the reason i voted third party.
today while reflecting on obama's victory i was very proud as an american. but truth be told, i was a proud american 3 days ago. a shitty president does not sway my thoughts on this country either way.
Nor should it Marigold. I feel as you do. For all the pissin' & moanin' goin' on, you'd think this country was a failure. Its interesting to note and convenient for many to ignore, but three major allies dumped their liberal Governments and elected leaders who wanted stronger ties with America when G. W. B. was president. He was shitty on domestic policies. But he was what we needed when we needed it on Foreign policy. History will bear this out.
DM, Mike: thanks for the agreement. I really didn't know what kind of reception this post would get, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who is just a bit uncomfortable with all the Obama-worship going on right now. I would feel this way about anyone spoken of in these terms.
"Let's hope he doesn't get the same level of respect and cooperation that The last President got."
Let's hope he doesn't abuse the powers of the office to same level as the last president did, or come anywhere close to being as willfully disingenuous with the nation
When I last tuned in on Tuesday evening to watch the results coming in, it was already a done deal. But at that time, the margin was about 41,000,000 for McCain to 43,000,000 for Obama.
So I knew what I wanted to know, and being Canadian didn't go any further. As I understand it, with some results still to come in, Obama was at 52% and McCain at 44% about 11 hours ago. Anyway, my point is that really means several million people wanted McCain.
As I see it, it wasn't really a landslide when you're counting votes. Seats of the Electoral College says something else. Still, 40 some odd million people who did NOT want Obama seems significant to me when the news I got before the election was that a record turnout of 100,000,000 was expected.
Thanks Chuck, you just shot down my satirical post on 'Obamageddon'.
I was going to imagine the world as some Republicans would see it in the coming day leading up to Inauguration Day.
And thanks for pointing me to Troy's post. I didn't get notif. on that gem of writing.
Chris: Now, of course, you have to post "obamageddon" anyway. The name alone is great! And it's kind of the other side of the coin to my post. I had thought about doing a follow-up of sorts, wherein I tried to calm the fears of those convinced that tomorrow would see us wake up to armbands and goose steps. But I think you could hit that better.
and isn't that Troy post great?
John: you're right. It wasn't near the landslide the electoral numbers make it seem, and with a significant number of people not happy with the choice that was made, national unity is more than one day away, that;s for sure.
Ditto's here too. Much more eloquent than my little rant. It's the eternal pessimist in me that sees now that the glass has been broken. I hope I'm proved wrong.
Yeah the armbands come right after the stock market hits 5000 and China decides to cash in the T bills they have been hording. The best part is I had some rabid republican friends who needed a laugh helping me shape the idea this afternoon. We were thinking worst case scenario. Scratch that, cataclysmic scenario.
Hey wait a minute, aren't you supposed to be elbows deep in novel writing?
I have heard equally as many claims that Obama literally is the anti-Christ ... or a Muslim or a terrorist or a socialist or a communist .... I mean, come on Chuck .. why don't you get worked up about them also as I would put them in the same category. It's easy to knock that down.
No one—I repeat, NO ONE—feels differently about the political spectrum today than they did three days ago
that's a pretty sweeping and rigid statement ... actually quite a few prominent conservatives endorsed Obama ... that switch most likely did not occur in three days but gestated over time though.
And I’m sorry, but the thought that this victory even makes things better today strikes me as ludicrous.
And so now it's a time for a different set of people to feel cynical (maybe yourself included ... but again I don't really like to generalize)... shit ... I've been cynical for a long time now ... it feels good not to be cynical ... do you begrudge that to people? It's only natural I think for so many people to WANT to feel positive and I think since people have a hard time finding that on a daily basis for themselves ... and many people have projected negativity onto the last president (what was his approval rating again?) It gets projected outward, maybe Obama acts as a catalyst for such a phenomenon.
Are we polarized as a group of people? ... yes absolutely ... so the question is how not to be so polarized in one's OWN thinking. Of course that is a tall task because that means walking a line of maintaining your own integrity and understanding another's simultaneously.
Empathy.
That is the lesson I think we must learn or else we will never have solid relationships with one another.
Empathy.
That is the lesson I think we must learn or else we will never have solid relationships with one another.
Amen brother Nick.
No one—I repeat, NO ONE—feels differently about the political spectrum today than they did three days ago.
Maybe a poor choice of words. I think the feeling is not palatable. It's ephemeral, the sense is in the spirit. Nick's right that is broad.
I think politics is ruled by hearts. We vote and legislate, and judge by what we feel is right or righteous. Without going into the idea of justice or morality we all have that sense of 'the right thing to do'. In the end that's what many of Americans tapped into on Tuesday. Their idea of right and wrong. Truly voting is the one of the many acts not controlled by our heads.
And I’m sorry, but the thought that this victory even makes things better today strikes me as ludicrous.
For Troy it did. That's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
You know me Chuck, but Nick brings up some good points.
(first, the easy responses) Eric: I hope you are, too. I'm not ready to out and stock up on canned goods just yet, but I feel a twinge of nervousness and what might happen.
Chris: I've been pretty slack on the novel-ness this year. I have a little bit written, but I'm hoping to catch up on it soon.
I know this is awkward but this tune has been with me since Tuesday.
(now, the rest).
Nick: you do raise good points. \
why don't you get worked up about them also as I would put them in the same category. It's easy to knock that down.
The reason for this one is the fact that the comments I was ranting against are the ones I've been hearing the most since Tuesday. Yeah, I've heard a bit of the other, and if you see my earlier comments, I thought about posting against that, too. But this viewpiont is the one that I seem to encounter the most, watching tv, listening to the radio, or in conversations with other.
No one—I repeat, NO ONE—feels differently about the political spectrum today than they did three days ago
Yeah, I knew writing it that that was not the best choice of words. It's never a good idea to go 100% on any statement like this. Honestly, it was my emotions coming in to play. I don't think there's been that much of an overnight change as people would like to say, but to make a blanket statement like this was a bad choice of words.
I've been cynical for a long time now ... it feels good not to be cynical ... do you begrudge that to people?
Nick, I'm not begrudging that spark of hope to people at all, and if that's the way it came off, then either I worded it wrong or you misinterpreted what I said. If you'll read my post, I'm not knocking hope, I'm knocking the false hope of people who think that Obama is going to be able to magically change their lives, overnight. I mean, there are videos playing on tv of people who think that because Obama won, they won't have to pay their mortgage anymore! I have students (8th grade, granted, but stil they have to get their knowledge from somewhere, right?) who were completely amazed on Wednesday that gas prices hadn't plummeted by the time they came to school against. And I'm watching all the people on tv claiming that now, the country will be united and our racial problems are over. And I'm saying that's NOT the case.
Do I want things to improve? Of course I do. Do I want this to be the beginning of a new era? Heck, yeah. But I personally think having false hope is worse than having no hope at all. And it seems far too many people have hope in things that just aren't going to happen. At least, not right away, and not from Obama alone.
so the question is how not to be so polarized in one's OWN thinking. Of course that is a tall task because that means walking a line of maintaining your own integrity and understanding another's simultaneously.
Nick, that's a beautiful statement, and it has an ideal in it that I hope I can live up to.
For Troy it did. That's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
Chris, that's a good point to bring up, and I hope in my original post I was able to show that I'm not denying the hope that Troy and others are feeling. That wasn't the intent at all. But it's one thing to feel that sort of hope, it's another thing to say that this win slams a door on racism as we know it. That, I don't buy.
It is about hope. Obama knows he has some expectations from some people that are unrealistic and/or downright bad ideas. But I have a nervous excitement about the whole thing. Just as you say that the president os not the king, the president is not the nation. We have to heal ourselves and fix our own problems with some help from the policy makers. I heard this theme of sacrifice in the acceptance speech, and I think that Obama deserves respect and a clean slate for people to judge him by his policies, not by the heightened innuendo of the election rhettoric. I just trusted that he was more apt to have new ideas, and that he was more agile as a statesman. I hope I voted correctly, what else can I say. Obviously I don't think my life is easier today, but there is a sense of hope. I don't want any lowest common denominator policies just like you.
We have to heal ourselves and fix our own problems with some help from the policy makers. I heard this theme of sacrifice in the acceptance speech, and I think that Obama deserves respect and a clean slate for people to judge him by his policies, not by the heightened innuendo of the election rhettoric. . . .
Obviously I don't think my life is easier today, but there is a sense of hope
Amiel, one of the things I love about MOG is the fact that there is always someone out there who says things like this, things that help to emphasize what I'm trying to say (whether that was your intent or not, I don't know). Let's strip away the hype and the false hope, and what we have left is a man who now deserves our respect and our willingness to do our part to bring us out of the crap we're currently in.
Clean slate? Judge him by his policies? I think that's the least any of us can do.
But it's one thing to feel that sort of hope, it's another thing to say that this win slams a door on racism as we know it.
I totally agree.
Obviously I don't think my life is easier today, but there is a sense of hope.
Oat, that is half the battle. If you have hope you can go on.
Chuck, we're cool. I didn't read that at all.
G- I don't think it is false hope, though.
Chris: It's all good.
Amiel: I should have been clearer, I was referring back to the false hope of my original post, not the hope of a new presidency and the promise of change.
Chuck, I agree with you part of the way. The hype was there about Obama raising the dead and such, but I think people realize he's got a tough road ahead. His speech Tuesday night was definitely not jubliant or celebratory, and in his most recent statements if you listened closely he was talking about how we have tough decisions to make. And that's OK.
But what I got from the election was hope. For real, honest to goodness hope. Now, I'm a pretty optimistic person in general, but I don't think I realized how cynical or pessimistic I was about the state of our country, or at least in its governance, until Obama won.
What he has done is amazing. He has, I hope, ended the politics of the 1960s Nixonland Southern Strategy, which used hate and fear to divide us. His attacks on McCain were about McCain's policy, not his character. And McCain needs to be given credit for staying (relatively) honorable in his campagin--no Rev Wright ads, no Willie Horton, no Threat Code Orange, no Bin Laden. It shows, to me, that they both understood that the nation is ready for a different kind of political process. And this is poetic--- the last Democrat to win a plurality of votes for president was Johnson, who, after siging the Civil Rights Act, said the Dems had lost the South for a generation. (Enter Richard Nixon.) And now the first Democrat to win a plurality is.... an African-American.
What Obama did was the same as what Reagan did in 1980, and what FDR did in 1932-- he communicated an optimism, an intelligence, a strong sense of core values and a steadiness that resonates with us at this time. We are at war in two fronts, neither of which gets attention. Our economy is in a tailspin, the greatest since 1932. We need hope and optimism and steadiness.
And thanks for the link to Troy's post; I didnt get the notif eitehr,,,
Great comment chris, I totally agree.
It comes out in the comments that, instead of an open letter to those who voted for Obama, this is more of an open letter to a bunch of 13 year-olds who have unrealistic expectations about the impact of a new president. I kept wavering over whether or not your decision to use such hyperbolic examples was a brilliant piece of self-satire, or an uncharacteristic lack of cognizance on your part. It appears that it was neither, but instead mostly a reaction to the naivety of some kids. Taking the time to consider and observe the situation payed off once again.
I think that, to a degree, many people, if not most, have their doubts about the ability of an Obama administration to live up to the hype of an Obama administration. A lot of people also feel that it is just a common courtesy to let people have their moment of celebration and will see an attempt to impede or prevent that celebration as a fairly major affront. As such, you are probably going to get a larger number of impassioned and reactionary replies to a post like this today than you would if you had posted it a week later.
Personally, I kind of feel like taking a moment to celebrate, too. In a message I sent to a friend yesterday I said: More so than who our new president will be, I am truly uplifted by the notion that so many people feel so genuinely that the things that Obama was marketed to represent are good things. I honestly didn't think that, as a group, the American public had the capacity to think beyond their god and their wallets. I know it won't last long, but for now I'm just going to happily ride the wave of excitement...
My pleasure came from the fact that my faith in the voting public had been somewhat restored; that it was possible that we, as a nation, have the capacity for empathy. But, like you, I feel they may have overestimated the endlessness of the possibilities, and in a later message told the same friend: For what it is worth, I don't see Obama as the snake oil salesman that so many others do, but I do believe that he is intelligent and worldly enough to know that he is biting off a brand of populism that is much larger than he can chew. Although I know that I am likely wrong, I do believe that he is well intentioned and that he will strive to carry out his promises as best as he can, but when he stands before the American people and says, "Look, I know we didn't get this and that, but look how much we did accomplish," they will be throwing tomatoes, particularly the ones who's first vote was the one they cast for him.
So, in a way, the hype may very well be merely a prelude to the backlash, and Obama and his supporters might end up being much worse off for all of today's love and optimism, which, I suppose, is a rather hateful and pessimistic thing to say. In other words: those with the most grandiose of expectations stand to be the ones whose hearts break the hardest, so we can use that to allay our bitterness.
Chris: I agree with your comments as well.
Brand x: I might have mentioned my 8th graders once, but I assure you that the other "real" examples I was talking about have come out of the mouths of adults. And I say "real" here because yes, there was a bit of grandiose hyperbolizing in there--to my knowledge, no one has said yet that he is actually the messiah, or will bring about world peace and the like--but I was trying to make the point of the unrealistic expectations and praise already being heaped on the man.
And I ask you, where does it say I am trying to rain on a parade or knock down those who are celebrating? I'm not damning those who feel hope, or who think thing are going to change. Not my intent at all. But it's the overhype that I'm railing against.
And I'm trying to figure out where your rancor in the first sentence or two came from (or what seemed to be rancor) as a lot of what you said later in your comment came dangerously close to being along the same lines as some of what I was saying.
I suppose I tend to bristle a bit when it is implied that I'm pretty dumb, however, if you think that implication wasn't made and that your post wasn't riddled with condescension, then I guess we could say my first couple of sentences weren't all that rancorous. The point here being that once we queue up all of our words and send them out into the world, they cut how they cut, whether we wanted them to or not.
It may read as rancor, Groon, but it was actually a way of converting a personal attack into the rant of someone frustrated by the simplistic notions of naive people. The first paragraph was my explanation of why I spent four hours watching this thread develop and looking for nuance instead of lashing out immediately with an "impassioned and reactionary" response.
I could easily ask you where I said that you said that you are trying to rain on a parade or knock down those who are celebrating, but that seems a little fucking silly... I don't think there is all that much ambiguity in either of our writings here, but how about we let it suffice to say that I was, in my second paragraph, kind of reiterating that people are still a little emotional about the whole thing, you and I included, I suppose, and that as we all begin to detach a little bit and pay more attention to what each other are really saying, and why they are saying it, we will probably find that people are being a lot more reasonable than it had previously seemed. I mean, look at us, we more or less agreed, but we had to shit on each other to do it.
The fact that voting for Obama makes me dumber than a box of shit is the reason that the similarity of our opinions seems to be so dangerous. Essentially, the source of our disagreement is in the fact that I am one of many undeserving addressees of your letter, and not in the likelihood of Obama curing cancer. I don't think that you truly intended your letter as a personal attack toward anyone, and it isn't going to color my opinion of you in the future. I'm not really mad, and I referred my sentiments as "hateful and pessimistic" and to the bitterness as "ours" in an attempt to convey that I know that, in the end, you, me, and everyone else aren't all that different.
As a non-American, I can still understand people's overexcitement about Obama. It just goes to show how much they needed a change, no? In such desperate times, I think that placing your hope and your dreams on someone even in irrational way is only natural. Doesn't it work like that with religion in many occasions as well?
I think that people that treat him as a messiah will be disappointed that he doesn't after all have a magic wand, but that's their problem, isn't it?
As an outsider, my humble opinion is that he was worth every single vote, but only the future can prove that. Now he will have to work hard to sort through the problems, which will take a long time to happen, and we should all be sober-headed. But I do know where people that have exaggerated hopes come from. I've been there. Hell, we've all been there. It's all natural.
Sober is right. And I am not an Obama fanatic...but damn guys, we've been through hell the last 8 years. Go back and watch news clips from 2002. It was like living in some totalitarian, despotic cult/regime. And most people just sat around doing nothing!
The country turned into a godamn bull in a china-shop. Civil liberties trampled, senseless misguided wars waged, people died man! We have blood on our hands. Really....shame on us if we didn't think something was wrong.
Bloodthristy, bloodthirsty, bloodthirsty politicians. And we cry when gas prices are up? Where's the future?
I might me biased here because I left America in 1992 and came back in 2000, so I can say nothing about the Clinton years (where's Rage against the machine now?). But I can say something about Reagan, Bush I and Bush II.
So.....I really hope that Obama just handles the terrible state our country is in with HONESTLY.
At least he admits there's something gravely wrong in our country. Look, we all love our country, but it shouldn't be blind love. America does not always do what's right. As one person said, it shouldn't be the love of a 4-year-old to his/her mother. A four-year -old believes that everything mommy does is right and anybody who criticizes mommy is bad. (I stole this from a book I read in a free box). No, we should love our country like we love a friend. Like if a friend starts to do heroin or something equally destructive, we will fight to help them. By any means necessary.
I really hope Obama is a president/leader of integrity.....because that's something I've never known.
Barack Obama is NOT the messiah, nor is he the second coming of one. Please stop treating him as such. He will not bring about world peace, an end to world hunger, a cure for cancer, or the abolishment of poverty.
I voted for him, but yes, the man is human. People are ridiculous about this shit. I believe in no man, other than he is a human too.
I would agree with you on pretty much everything you said. All the hyperbole is ridiculous. For me it's more of a "Fantastic, this is a great step forward. Please let the man do his job, and stop with all the predictions and everything. He has just as much ability to disapoint you as any other human."
Over all though, I think it's important symbolism, because people act a lot more on symbolism than anything that is ever actually said (look at flag burning, religious persecution, wars, etc.). Obama represents the closest thing to a voice of a 18-45 mindset that are running the country, that are shaping it. This is the New Economy president (I guess good or bad, with the recession and all) and the New Media president. For all of us who in some way have been involved in the changing of the guard from the old ways that business gets done, information, flows, and how jobs are worked on, I believe we feel Obama best represents us. I'm not trying to say there's anytihing wrong with some of the old ways, but as some one who was in college as the internet took off and has been using it for a big part of how they make their living since then, I think we feel comfortable with an Obama who knows how to organize through networks, vs. a McCain who doesn't email.
We've been putting a Goods based economy to bed for sometime in this country, moving to a service based one. Do we still need goods? Yep. Do we still need services? Yep. I think what Obama represents to most is this free flowing world of information, free of borders and the old bureaucracies.
Anyway, I'm getting long winded. The president is always a symbolic postition, and the health of that symbol mattters not just here, but all over the world. It's like the guarentee of the pursuit of happiness, it's the pursuit that's guarenteed, not the hapiness. Hope is what lets people find what is within themselves to make changes.
Also, I would point out that we are so often oblivious to change (because it is so gradual, in most cases) when you see something so drastic as this, people lose their shit, in both good ways and bad ways.
For my money, you make some good points. But the guy has only been prez elect for a few days, so I'll give him some slack. That folks put such a burden on the man is going to make it tough. As hard (it really wasn't that hard in an historical perspective..and it should be hard in my IMO) as the campaign was it was only the beginning..If he can keep his coalition together and the coalition will support his inititives he has a shot.
Change is glacial though (maybe it should be), so it will take time. My hope is that the change will be more than just a few faces, but for now, getting George W. out the door works for me.
Democracy is not just the election..if the people want change, Barack himself will not be enough.
Fact is though, that the man moved people..I wouldn't underestimate that. I vote, but this is the first time I did volunteer work for a campaign. I'm definitely not in the messiah camp, but if he can get people to participate, and WE (including dissenters) can have a conversation on how we'd like things to go down, I'm all for it.
Don't worry. Those who think he's the messiah will wake up and smell the coffee in 2009. Nothing like world events and time to force people to look around and say "nothing's different".
I'm glad that this country elected a black president. I'm glad that he excites a lot of people. But I disagree with almost everything he says. And I am not optimistic about the country for the next four years. At all.
If I am grateful for any one thing about this election, it's that we finally, again, have a statesman-like President. Figurehead or power can be argued, but to have someone solid, unflappable, not given to hyperbole or gunslinger rhetoric is wonderful for me personally and I think the world wants it, too. We need a leader that knows not to massage the shoulders of other leaders, or who can take a ten second breather before teliing other leaders that your are either "with us, or 'gainst us." And i think McCain or Obama fit this figure and would do a decent job.
Also, I'm hopeful -- and maybe a little less confident about this -- that this guy may able to shed some of the partisan bs that's plagued us with the great uniter to whom we soon bid fairwell.
Believe me, this is more than just appearances.
(As an aside, I voted for and am elated that Obama one.)
Step away for a while, and the comments officially become more than I can really answer back to individually. I apologize for that. Let me say this, though. If any read my comments and thought I was denouncing hope, I apologize for my inability to communicate. It really seemed, though, that most of you understoof what I was trying to say and at least in part agreed with it. To those of you that took offense, it was not my intention. Brand x, although no personal attack was meant, I can see how it could come off that way, and I thank you for still engaging me in the dialogue.
for all of us, the next four years offer the promise of many things, and I hope to high heaven that everyone's optimism is not misplaced. While I did not vote for Obama, and really am concerned with some of the things he's said, I'm willing to keep my mind open before passing judgement It is nice to hear something coming from people besides cynicism for once, and I guess that's a positive change already.
the difference between obama and mccain is that one realizes he is a public servant and the other thinks he knows better than you.
it seems that the complaints here surround what a mysterious general public thinks rather than what the candidates actually said they would do.
perhaps that explains my high level of misanthropy. people as a group can be so stupid - speaking before they think and when they speak, they do not communicate what they actually mean... they choose their words poorly, etc.
i'm not talking about anyone's post or comment.... i'm talking about those "man in the street" people interviewed on the television news and in papers... the symbolic "joe the plumbers" and "jane the hockey moms" and their support of their candidate... THAT seems to be what you all don't like... the way the common man has characterized their candidate's position.
kind of like when you go to a concert for a band you've been into since the beginning and their new fans are total assholes and ruin the experience for you.
let the music speak for itself. judge obama by what he gets done and how he does it. time will tell. it always does.
i voted for him. i have high hopes.
the difference between obama and mccain is that one realizes he is a public servant and the other thinks he knows better than you.
The funny thing is, I have a feeling both sides would argue with 100% passion and and conviction total opposite viewpoints as to which candidate is which.
The concert analogy is a good one, and an interesting view.
I did not vote for him . . . but I still have high hopes.
maybe i made the most politic comment! whoo hoo!
pretty much, when discussing politics, i think either side of a debate can simply plug in their candidate's name and they feel the argument is theirs
i guess that is the difference between truth and fact
i think we have a truth going on here.
as for facts - we won't know til decades later what anything that's happened in the early part of this century gets called a fact and becomes an integral part of our history.
for instance - much as nixon did some really shitty things while in office and his own paranoia caused his downfall, under his administration, all the "great society" policy that was developed under kennedy and architected by johnson actually reached fruition - welfare, affirmative action, integration.... people who are younger than baby boomers or gen x will likely find welfare and affirmative action regressive by today's standards, but without them, the united states would have existed in an unbalanced caste/class structure of have/white hegemony not unlike the structure of the country from which we broke away in the 18th century... that nixon was able to - in both mccain and obama's fave catch phrase - reach across the aisle, shun the partisan aspect and enact these democratic policies is one good thing about him. but 34 years after his embarrassing resignation, those small but integral things are still overlooked.
one wonders what positive things W's administration will be remembered for
this is a few days late, but i feel like i just wanna make a few points.
1 being that the mccain that ran for president in 2008 was not the mccain that ran for president 2000. or the mccain that took on bush during his first term. i miss that mccain. that mccain was a straight-talking maverick. if that mccain had run i would've been very tempted to vote for him...i wouldn't have, but i would've been tempted. the mccain that ran was everything we democrats have began to fear in republicans. he was basically carl rove only with more poor judgement.
mccain could've had this in the bank if he'd stop with the whole "fake america" vs. "real america" (by the way, that really fucking pissed me off that they accused me of being unpatriotic and a fake american. i am as much of an american as anyone else and i love this fucking country regardless of who's running it!), and if he'd chosen someone like romney as his vp. palin wasn't the cause of his losing, but it was a major factor. it showed very poor judgement. if the guy can't even pick a roommate (and doesn't realize our country is floudering economically), how the hell can we trust him with the free world?
2 being that up until election night, i was cynical and apathetic about politics. the first election i participated in (but wasn't legal to vote in) was bush/gore in 2000. my very first election was shrouded in fraud. at a time when i should be seeing democracy in action, i saw lawsuits (rightly filed), people en masse being denied their legal right to vote (especially blacks and elderly jews in florida), and the country as a whole voting for a democrat while some rich white guy with an affected texan accent swaggered into the white house. my second election was in 2004. i had already spent 4 years in disbelief that we could even consider keeping someone like bush around but then again he won (well, i should say "won", but only b/c of the same shady tactics practiced before).
so yeah, by 2008 i had little faith that we as a country could get our shit together and vote for the betterment of our country, rather than our own shit. but the closer we got, the more surprised i became. and that night sealed the deal. i was excited b/c we had a democratic president, a black president, a smart, charming, sobering, and rational president who wanted to unify us - and judging by the votes (especially in virginia, indiana, iowa, ohio, north carolina, and florida) he did just that. he brought a country together. people didn't vote for mccain b/c they didn't believe he could fix anything, b/c they hated his horrible ads and divisive comments, and b/c he routinely showed bad judgement. people voted for obama b/c they trusted him, trusted he could help make things better, trusted that he could bring this country together and help us pull ourselves out of this shit hole. no one really believes he's the "messiah" or that the world will be covered in chocolate and gold by 2012. we are realistic. but we know now that we have a real chance.
and let me just sum up by saying that obama's health care plan ISN'T socialism. it isn't even close to socialism. national health service isn't socialism in any way, shape or form, and i dare you to go to all those countries (and fuck, even places like the congo and lethsoto have it) that have universal health care and tell them they're socialists.
also, obama's tax plan isn't socialist either. maybe someone should pick up a dictionary and read up on socialism b/c frankly the government bailout is far more "marxist" than anything obama's been doing. there was a socialist presidential candidate and it wasn't obama. the socialists themselves have rejected obama as being a capitalist. so can we just stop with that nonsense? what is this, mccarthyism or something? are we as a nation still seriously worried about the red threat? really? jesus fucking christ, people!
i have been saying for YEARS that "marx was right"
he predicted the advent of the euro currency
in 1976, when i registered to vote, i registered with the socialist workers party. and you're so right.... there's no socialism here. none.at.all.
i read in the NYTimes today that unemployment is at its highest in 14 years. where's emma goldman when you need her? now SHE was a socialist...
Wow . . . this took a turn, didn't it? But great discussion going on here. My thoughts:
first, caliscrnwrtr: your comments about mccain 2000 vs mccain 2008 are dead on. He was not the same candidate, and I was in the same boat as you--except I did vote for him in 2000 in the primaries. Back then he was exciting, dangerous (in the political sense, I guess) and really got people thinking he could be different. In 2008 he was the status quo, he was the party line, and he was exactly what everyone was afraid of: W part II.
I'll be honest, though, I have issues with some of your statements about the 2000 election, although it's water under the bridge it should be noted that the nation as a whole didn't vote Democratic, it was pretty much divided evenly. Yeah, the popular vote swung a little towards Gore, but unfortunately in our system that doesnt' matter near as much as the electoral votes do. And I'm still not convinced how much actual disenfranchisement went on down there versus people who couldn't figure out a stupid ballot. But I digress.
anna log: I too wonder what the eventual legacy of W will be, decades from now. Although the people today have spoken, I'm curious to know what people in the future will say about him. What will my kids and grandkids learn about this time in their history class? I mean, there's got to be some redeeming quality from the last 8 years, doesn't there?
i think when my kids are taught about dubya he will easily go down as one of the worst presidents in american history. they will learn how his administration ruined 2 wars, failed to unify america after 9/11, ruined our foreign status, failed to react appropriately to our many natural disasters and failed to prevent an economic crisis (yes, i know he didn't cause it, but he certainly didn't prevent it or staunch it in any way), etc. given that by the time my kids are old enough to learn about bush in school, people my age will have re-written the textbooks. and hopefully by then "no child left behind" will have either been abandoned or revamped so we can actually give kids textbooks (right now, many inner city/lower income schools only go up to clinton and have dubya as an add-in page the teachers have to glue in the back of the book...seriously...i'm not even being sarcastic...i had to spend an afternoon of one of my tutoring sessions in oakland glueing...).
can you name anything bush has done in the last 8 years that has been good? and don't say the war in afghanistan or iraq. we haven't won anything in either place, haven't done what we're supposed to do in the former, and shouldn't have even gone into the latter in the first place.
don't get me wrong, groon. i'm not anti-republican (but i am anti-neocon). i believe very much that we need political differences. dissent is the key to democracy. if we don't have different political parties we are nothing more than a monarchy or despotism. i may not agree with your political views, but i very much respect them. but bush lost my respect when he ran his first vile campaign. then i rallied behind him b/c, hell, he's our president, but he's continued to disregard the will of the people and continued to disrespect us. there are many republicans that i respect, but i do not respect the right-wing fundamentalist neocons. they vocally disrespect me and everything i believe in so it's only fitting that i do the same.
oh, and i loathe anyone who voted yes on prop 8. you can have your morality all you want, fine, whatever. but you can't use your spiritual beliefs to affect politics. hence "separation of church and state". keep your religion off my laws. you don't have to be gay or marry gay people at your church. that's totally cool. you wanna revel in your bigotry fine. i don't really care. but you can't legislate hatred and bigotry. that makes you no better then the men who declared black people as no more than 2/5th human, then the men that denied women the right to vote.
mccain 2000 had some of my TN friends - life long supporters of gore and even personal friends of his thinking that the maverick was a possibility... he is totally a different candidate than that guy - and although i fundamentally differ from the republicans vis a vis social policy, i think that mccain 2000 would have been a different contest than the candidate we got in 2008.
for AT LEAST 35 years, thinkers have been talking about an abolition of the electoral college system because its not as representative of the popular vote as it ought to be.
but i think that debate will go on ad infinitum
personally, i think the brits have a good thing w/ the parliamentary system. you can keep the party but oust the bad seed.
it will be really difficult for me to find anything redeeming about W's presidency. he's so NOT his father, whom i do not like but i have to give george HW bush props on a level of intelligence and analytical thinking that his oldest son does not have. i think he used his power for less than good, but that's just me (and all the people who fired him in 1992)
caliscrnwrtr: can you name anything bush has done in the last 8 years that has been good?
No, I can't. I wasn't sure if you were implying that I had branded myself a W supporter, or was just going off on a general rant, there. Believe me, the quicker he is out of here, the better for me. (and I'm glad you mentioned NCLB because as a teacher, I think that's one of the worst peices of shit legislatino ever passed).
I always find it hard to believe that people believe religious views can't be separated from political ones. They can't, if they're genuine. Anyone who says they are deeply religious, and then says they can separate their religious life from the rest of their life, is lying in either the first or second statement. You can't. Deeply held religious beliefs affect the rest of a person's life, be it morality, daily living, whatever. And people are going to vote right or wrong based on what they think is right or wrong. You can't have religion affect just whatever parts of your life are convenient. If so, then it's not religion. It's a social club.
anna log: I have long been back and forth on the electoral college. A popular vote by itself seems the best representation, but I think if we did that, then the elections every year would basically be decided by NYC, LA, Chicago, Miami, and like, Dallas. Basically a couple of huge urban centers that together make up a huge portion of the population. I think giving the states a balance of that power was a good choice. But then again, you have 2000 . . .
From this side of the Atlantic, I don't "get" this argument at all. In a democratic election, by a majority of about 52-46%, or around seven to eight million votes, you have elected as President a man from an ethnic minority, who presents as articulate and determined to change the political direction of a country that is widely distrusted for its foreign policies and economic mismanagement. there was no doubt that the policies of the two main parties were further apart than is often the cae, and the vote of the electorate was conclusive, if not overwheming.
Nobody here assumes that he has the answers, but it's widely believed that he is able to try something different, perhaps even a level of state intervention that would still be less than many European democracies have voted for. He may be another Roosevelt, or he may be another Carter. Heaven forbid, he may be another JFK - let's at least allow him to take office before starting the backlash?
Baudolino: I don't think there really is an argument to "get" at this point, or ever, really. I posted my thoughts that many Obama supporters treating the man almost like a messiah figure of sorts, expecting so many things out of him that he couldn't possibly deliver. I chose to drape this thought in sarcasm, which people either agreed with or disagreed with to varying degrees. A couple of side-turns and discussions later, and here we are. So I'm not sure if I'd call it a full-blown argument.
Either way, though, the comments and contributions are appreciated. I do hope that the next four years offer the US a chance to regain some of that trust.
I don't know, Groon, I think that people can seperate their religion and their politics to a much larger degree than you seem to think. Granted, a Quaker is not very likely to vote for a war monger, but I don't see a lot of them pushing through ballot measures that call for an all out ban on all forms of state sanctioned violence. They seem to get that pacifism is a moral issue, and that means that it is a personal decision about how they are going to lead their life, and no matter how much they wish everybody else felt the same way, they can't force them to.
There was a time in this country when the debate was whether or not public funds should be used to finance things that certain segments of the society found morally reprehinsible, you know, like pictures of dudes with bullwhips up their asses. That is an example of morality encroaching on politics, which, as you said, is unavoidable. Preventing a couple of homos from tying the knot is an example of morality creating policy, and I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why that is unavoidable.
Brand x, I see your point. Maybe it's not quite as clean cut as I originally stated, but I do think that one can not completely separate the two. The examples you gave, though, were pretty good, and I hadn't thought about morality and politics vs morality and policy. I'll have to think more on it.
Rather late on the discussion...but I would like to share my two cents.
Interesting post. Didn't really like either candidate 100% (then again, who really does), but most of my views and such happened to line up with Obama. I can't say I've seen much Obama worship down here in Georgia though. In the very red county of the very red state of mine, all the guns in the stores are almost gone. And most are screaming that their hard earned tax dollars are about to go to lazy bums on welfare who abuse the system (supposedly just like Obama and his kinfolk do).
I wore a tiny Obama pin last Wednesday, but I didn't wear it in the sense of a football fan victoriously gloating because the team won the big game. I wore it to show support for our next president, but also to show that I do expect him to do something. It isn't enough that he was elected. He has to actually improve things. And not by way of his magic wand or wishing well or fairy godmother either.
You should really consider redirecting a post like this to the youth of America. I’ve witnessed far too many kids blindly worshipping political candidates in general. This kind of ignorance breeds some of the worst evils---prejudice and stubbornness. It’s scary when a friend of yours can’t put a political sticker on her car for fear of someone slashing her tires. Or kids not coming to school after Election Day because they’re afraid they’ll get shot. Or noisy rioters running down the high school’s hallway screaming “Obamaaaaaaaaaa!” but cannot name a single policy of his once asked by the principal.
I realize you were probably extremely put out by all the Obama-worship in the media and such. Frankly, I am too. He’s not the next Messiah. He’s not even president yet. We have got to end the ignorance and bigotry. Maybe it won’t happen in your lifetime. Maybe it won’t happen in mine. Maybe it won’t happen ever. This could just be the un-jaded, wide-eyed youngster in me, but I believe we can reduce it. Have more political discussions like there were in the comments here. See more in a candidate than the race, or background, or family history. Vote the way they want to vote and not the way their parents/their friends/their favorite band is voting. Please, help the young people actually think for themselves and see what they themselves truly believe in and stand for. Because from what I’ve witnessed from some of my peers, the future’s looking pretty grim.
that is a miserable post. what are you so bitter about? if someone feels that the world is a better place because obama is president than ya know what...the world is a better place.
"So stop treating him like he actually has that much power. He’s just the president, not the king."
That is the best line. how come one President could so royally f%$k the country up but you won't give credit to one man to have the power to change the country for the better? sure racism is not over with (and i have not heard anyone say that it is? where are you getting that from?) and rednecks and racists will hate this man for no other reason than the color of his skin but maybe if they start to see THEIR OWN quality of life and happiness quotient increase from this man's policies and change then that is what will change their minds.
Are we talking personality or politics? I thought this would be an article free of hatred, name-calling et al, but to no avail that's all I can see after reading this piece. Good luck to all of you and perhaps we'll find the middle ground one day.
bohemianlullaby: thank you for your thoughts. It was interesting to hear the "younger" generation's perspective (even as I write this I feel older). It's sad to me that that sort of worship doesn't just extend to the younger crowd, though. You seem to have a much more thorough grounding in common sense and self-awareness than a lot of students I see these days, who are mostly concerned with what's popular and what's easy. I admire your taking a stand, of sorts, and not being afraid to go against the redness of where you live. I hope the hope the trust you and others place in the new president is not misplaced. I've seen no reason yet to think otherwise, but I'm a cynic at heart. Which brings me to . . .
seif: Thank you for stopping by. I'll admit, when it comes to politics I am a pretty bitter person. No argument there. Honestly put, my bitterness comes from witnessing yet another election where style outweighed substance, where it was generally accepted that MORE government is preferable to LESS government, and where the only choices that had a chance of winning were not what I wanted in a president. And it's not the people. I have no reason to doubt either Obama or McCain as people or patriots. But I disagree with the philosophy of both parties and am tired of seeing that philosophy (because, let's face it, once you strip away the extremities, the core beliefs are not that different).
if someone feels that the world is a better place because obama is president than ya know what...the world is a better place.
I don't know how I could possibly disagree more with that statement.n To me, that's like saying "if someone believes the sky is red than ya know what . . . they sky is red" or "if someone believes up is down than ya know . . ." well, you get my point. Again, it's style over substance. We can all believe 'til the cows come home that things are going to get better. But that doesn't mean they will. I'm not without hope. It's just false hope I can do without.
how come one President could so royally f%$k the country up but you won't give credit to one man to have the power to change the country for the better?
While I hold no love for W whatsoever, the notion that he alone put us in this mess is inaccurate. He had help. From the administration before his, who pushed Fannie and Freddie to start giving out high risk loans, to the congress who backed off and gave him whatever he wanted, to the American people who thought nothing was wrong enough to vote him out in 2004. And just as I don't think he's all to blame for where we are now, I don't think Obama by himself can do anything. Again, I'm not against him or the hope placed in him. I just want to be realistic.
Dexter's Groove: Thanks to you for your comments as well. I'm curious as to whether the name calling and hatred you mentioned is from the post itself, or the comments? I'll admit I was cynical when it was written, and remain to this day, but I don't see the hatred in it, or the name calling. What, exactly, are you referring to?
Hi Groon,
I can understand your concerns about mythologizing and over-idealzing Barack Obama. His own public relations team are already working to "hose down" excessive and unrealistic hopes lest the outcome in very short order be ecstasy and the big come down when its realized he is not a miracle work. All that observed I would not be so quick to recommend scepticism as what the Ameriacn political system (looking on it as an outsider here in Australia) seems to need - internally and for the sake of its international reputation - is a does of belief. In the end that belief, or even faith, has to be backed up by substantive action and some realism about the limits any one person, team, or even Party can achieve. But without a sense of excitement, dreaming, symbolism, hope etc the entire system operates ata more depressed and less grand level. Everybody, top to bottom, reaches for less.
Mark, that's a good point. Despite what it may sound like (and some have accused me of) I'm not without hope. I just want it tempered with reason. I'm not promoting skepticism. The belief is necessary, and a good thing. I was just reacting to some of the over the top statements I was hearing coming at me from all sides.
Thanks for the comments!
I was a strong Obama supporter - well, i was a strong not-McCain-and-especially-not-Palin supporter - and i'm quite aware that a lot of people do view his election as something like the Second Coming (as a lot of Republicans seemed to view Saint Ronnie's election).
As we were going out for the one meal out we're allowed this pay period, Kate pointed out that there are a lot of people out there who have promised themselves that Obama would have everything fixed by March (Aprin15th at the latest), and i agreed with her.
Going to be interesting to watch the approval ratings...
Barack Obama never claimed to be a messiah. He does claim to be a very competent community organizer. I don’t think he’ll end poverty but he’ll do much more to end it than the Republican administration past did and more than John “I don’t recollect how many houses I own” McCain did.
He never made any claims about cancer, but he sure wants to change our healthcare system.
By the way, the gas prices dropped because demand fell off sharply. Nuff said.
He never promised to pay your mortgage either, but he will bring back regulation that got us iinto this mess, unlike the past Republican administration or John “I say I want regs but vote against them” McCain.
I think you may be afraid because Obama is black but you didn’t pay attention to his roots which are both black and white. Racism is a powerful mover of emotion and so is ignorance. As far as Unity, that’s already happening with the country. The very night he was elected, many Republicans expressed excitement that the first black had been elected to the highest land in the country.
Barack Obama has proved himself in the past and he can do that again. But not with people whining about him instead of working with him.
And since most of you seem to be male, I think you should do a crotch check. See if they're still there.
sophizgood: Thank you for your comments. However, like many others who commented on this thread at some point, you completely failed to see the point of anything I actually wrote on the original comment. Did you actually read the original post? Or did you just read the knee-jerk reactions of some of the other commenters? Never once did I say that Obama said any of that stuff. This post was not about even Barack Obama at all, really. It was about the Obama supporters who basically went around acting like all of this stuff was true. Those that were engaged in some kind of hero worship of someone who has until now been virtually untested on a national or global level. I've expressed time and time again my hope in the next four years, but I refuse to let that hope wipe out the realism that in the end, he still has yet to take office and prove himself.
And if there's one thing I can't stand, it's someone who assumes that because I'm white, and I'm posting about a black guy, that I'm racist. I can only assume by your post that you yourself have racial issues? Because I've tried time and time again to figure out how you could assume by my OP that I'm afriad of him because he's black. And the only thing I can guess is that it's because I'm white, and I dared to suggest that his election didn't solve all of the racial issues in this country. Now, I'm no genius, but there's a leap of logic in there that even I can't follow. Please leave your own issues in your own closet, thank you very much.
And country unity? Turn on the news sometime. Just as much bickering and fighting as ever before.
Now, why don't we wait and see what the man actually does? that's all I was tyring to say.
"It was about the Obama supporters who basically went around acting like all of this stuff was true. Those that were engaged in some kind of hero worship of someone who has until now been virtually untested on a national or global level." You haven't documented a thing you said, so why should I debate you point by point? Your comments are all without foundation, even the one that says the post isn't about Obama. Like I said before, stop whining and get on board.
I'm sorry, sophizgood, that in this post I made a month and a half ago I didn't take the time to document every little snippet of conversation I heard while in line at the store, flipping through the tv stations, or talking to people at work, etc etc etc. If you're sitting there acting like you were completely unfamiliar with the kind of sentiment I am describing here, than you are at that point undebatable, as you have apparantly been living on a different planet until now.
As for my post NOT being about Obama being undocumented, I can ony ask again, DID YOU READ THE ORIGINAL POST? I can only assume not, or you would be able document to me, then, where I actually posted about things he said. Since you have not, I have no choice but to assume you're either a) a troll or flamer of some sort, in which case this is pointless, b) an idiot, in which case this is pointless, or c) unable to actually discern what I was saying because of some other reason, in which case, you guessed it, this is pointless.
Since you are the one who apparantly has something to say, sir or madam, then might I suggest you actually back up whatever the hell YOU are trying to say? As soon as you actually come out with and say whatever it is? Because, honestly, I'm stumped. Please, prove to me that I was talking about Obama's own words. Or, please, prove to me that there weren't people out there who were hoisting these kind of expectations on Obama (keeping in mind, of course, that my OP had a modicum of satire in it).