THE MUSIC BLOGGING HIVE MIND

Lecture Series, part 11: Gentle Giant, and a conclusion

Posted about 1 year ago
Okay, I'm getting the feeling this has gone on long enough. The comments per post have slowly dwindled over the last few weeks, and my desire to keep posting on the topic has frankly waned as well. I'd like to think that I accomplished my original goal, which was not to get everyone to fall in love with progressive rock, but just to clue you in on the fact that not all prog is capes and over the top pretentious snobbery. I'd like to end with one of my all time favorite bands, and one of the most well known unknown bands out there, if that makes sense. I'm talking about Gentle Giant. Even though the last official thing they did together was way back in 1980, among "prog circles", such as it were, Gentle Giant is still one of those bands that is talked about in whispers of hushed reverence. Ask 10 prog lovers which band they would gladly travel thousands of miles to see and spend way too much money in the process, and I wouldn't be surprised if more than half answer Gentle Giant. (That's not a scientific poll, mind you, just a gut feeling). And while not everyone gets into them (I'm looking at you, capndad!) even the haters out there recognize that Gentle Giant actually did what so many other prog outfits through the decades failed to do--they created something completely and totally unique, in every sense of the word.A rather unflattering picture, IMOGentle Giant started in the late 1960's, and at first they were a good, but rather typical prog band. As their sound developed, though, they grew increasingly complex. What makes them different than the other complex bands out there can be broken up into three areas, I think: First, Gentle Giant drew their influences from all over the place; rock, jazz, the other usual places. But they also drew heavily on more medieval sounds as well, and brought this in through odd instrumentation, and a more medieval sounding approach to playing, including counterpoint, fugues, and other musical terms I don't care to dredge up. The point is that there are mamy examples of GG playing songs where all the instruments are basically playing different things, bringing them together in unusual ways. Here's a song from the album Interview that demonstrates that in part. Note how the instruments are each playing separate phrasings, picking up where others leave off:
Second, add this medieval, multi-layered sound to the vocals. There are exactly two bands I know of that people refer to in terms of their vocals. One is The Beatles. The other is Gentle Giant. The phrase "Gentle Giant like vocals" immediately brings to mind something like this next song. You have a band full of people who could all sing intricate complex rhythms as wella s play them, and they did. Sometimes they had these crazy vocals inside songs, but in other times the vocals themselves were the whole point of the song. This next is a clip of them performing the song "On Reflection" live. It starts off kind of slow, but if you skip forward to about the 2 minute mark you'll hear what I'm talking about. I know of no other band that could pull that off and make it sound interesting. Third, and most importantly: even through all this musical highmindedness, they just simply wrote songs that kicked ass. They could rock out, they could settle into a groove, they could wail, they could be melodic. They really could do it all. Here's another video of them, this time just playing a great rocking tune, in spite of its more complex subtext:This is "Proclamation":And one more, because they just completely rock. This is "Octopus Medley," a live medley of songs from their album called OctopusSadly, Gentle Giant went the way of the Dodo and the Diplodocus. And unlike many other bands who have reformed, it's been confirmed that a Gentle Giant reunion will pretty much never happen. They all went their various ways, but what's interesting is that the singer, Derek Shulman, eventually became a bigwig at PolyGram records. While there, he signed acts such as Bon Jovi, Cinderella, Kingdom Come, Tears for Fears, Men Without Hats, and Dexy's Midnight Runners. Later he was the president of ATCO, signing Pantera, was the President of Roadrunner records, signing Slipknot and Type O Negative, among others. So, there you have it. Not to say that there won't be more prog in future postings, but that's it for the "lectures!"

Comments (21)

  1. Sikke says Man I had fun watching that drummer go :) Absolutely loving these guys, so thanks for turning my head (hey, I'm a young guy, so this is 'discovery' ! ) Loved your series if this is the last. I rarely comment. Apologies if that's made you feel like it was a waste of time. I'm sure others have read and not replied as well... oh well, we are the lurkers....
    Permalink posted 02/04/2008
  2. Groon says No apologies needed. It really wasn't that so much as just feeling like I had to bring it to a close at some point, had laid out the broad strokes of everything I wanted to say, and from this point on would just be getting redundant. I'll still be posting about prog--that is, after all, my true musical love. But having this series made me feel like I had somehow "committed" myself to doing it, and life doesn't always cooperate with that. Having said that, glad you dug the Giant. They really were amazing, and I think more than a lot of the others are an overtly progressive band that can appeal to more than just prog listeners. It's just great music, ya know?
    Permalink posted 02/04/2008
  3. Groon says Man, I just noticed I really needed to spellcheck this thing! And I'm a teacher! Sheesh!
    Permalink posted 02/04/2008
  4. Sikke says I just have to add, if you don't want to be a drummer after watching that guy go for a few minutes, you need to check your pulse. His facial expressions alone get my spasming to the beat - you can really feel what's going on there.
    Permalink posted 02/04/2008
  5. Groon says Definitely. By far the most expressionistic(?) drummer I've ever watched.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  6. capndad says Ok. I cannot ignore them anymore. It's 10 a.m. here on the west coast and I have a room to paint, meaning I can't comment right now. But I must, since the gauntlet has been dropped, or flung, or whatever the right phrase is. (Groon, you would know, being a teacher and all) I will say that the series has been educational, and you've put words to emotional and internalized expressions that I experience when listening to Prog. Well done! I'll check back in later when I have time to review GG. Cheers!
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  7. Cody B says And later Derek became the head of DRT entertainment, which was distributed by the company I worked for..He was a fairly nice guy and I worked out of his office for awhile. I set up an instore signing the Giant did when they re-issued a bunch of records on DRT..Really good turnout with folks begging them to reform. They had a few Clutch records on DRT and that was cool and getting to hear the G. Giant for the first time after seeing those album covers for years was pretty cool too. I was mostly impressed by their lack of pretension and the humor on those records. Good stuff. However, the label engaged in Old School biz and was an incredible drag on our companies bizness (they also put out a Vanilla Ice record), going away owing us a huge pile of money and generally adding to negativity that lead to the dismantling of the music division I worked for. Not mad a Derek,though, just generally bitter. It was cool to meet and sell the Giant (the rock buyer for the major record chain in the usa is a huge fan, even though he makes his dough on My Chem Ro) and those Clutch shows ruled. Excellent series Groon..
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  8. Cody B says BTW-I believe an 11 part series was perfect for prog..
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  9. Groon says hah! Cody, that's brilliant, and I hadn't even thought of that. Just the fact that you have rubbed shoulders with the Giant makes you one of the coolest people I have ever talked to, plain and simple. Shame it turned out so negative, but that seems to be par for the course when dealing with the "business" end of music, from what I understand. I've always thought it interesting that Derek got into the business side, considering that GG wasn't really treated well by the labels and companies they worked with. One of their albums, In a Glass House wasn't even released in the USA because it was deemed not commercial enough. when they finally went commercial, they lost their fan base, stopped selling records, and fell apart. Capndad--it wasn't a challenge so much as . . . an invitation. Yeah, that's the ticket! and I believe gauntlets get thrown, but I'm not 100% on that. Definitely interested in hearing your thoughts on the GG I put here. I know you said you have Interview, but I tried to pick out other ones you might enjoy.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  10. capndad says Thanks Groon. I've just spent the past however minutes watching the videos you posted. One thought I've had is that the music of most bands is quite easy to play by comparison to what GG put out. You won't find too many people whistling Octopus Medley or Proclamation, and I mean that in the most complimentary way. They define and play exactly what I say I want in Prog rock. (i.e. complex music) I think to a certain degree I've become spoiled by the technology utilized by most prog rock musicians these days, and would say that Gentle Giant, if formed today, would have got my attention fairly quickly. Another thought that ran through my thick skull is that a lot of music is attractive to its listeners because of the melody that captures them into wanting more. Gentle Giant doesn't lure its fans through melody. Just the opposite in many songs. What is there, is pure musicianship and a willingness to explore far beyond what was even termed experimental back in their day. That sense of experimentation, combined with musical journeys that take us through unexplored universes where pieces of puzzles float or speed by us before finally joining together even for but a moment, must be what built their audiences. A word about the drug culture of their day. I was in it, as were you perhaps. As I listen to Octopus Medley for the second time (and plan to go find the album very soon) I realize that what I described above is precisely what would make certain "trips" more awesome. Like in the final climactic moments of the Beatle's "A Day in the Life" that, to the drug induced mind, builds seemingly forever, so too Gentle Giant's approach to composition, I suspect, would be the music that heightened and extended an evening's entertainment. I would like to take this opportunity to thanks Mr. Groon publicly for having the foresight and faith in his musical taste to describe and demonstrate Gentle Giant in a way that, despite my own efforts over the years, dragged me into their camp. Gotta go now. There's a Giant waiting for me on the stereo.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  11. Groon says Aaah! MOG dropped my comment! The surly bastard . . . anywho, basically what I said was this: Cody, the fact that you rubbed shoulders with the Giant makes you instantly cool in my book. It's a shame it ended on such a negative note. I've always wondered why Derek chose to work for "the man" after getting screwed while still in GG. There was one album, In a Glass House, that the label refused to release in the USA because it was deemed not commercial enough. When they finally did try to make a more commercial sound, they lost their fan base, stopped selling records, and fell apart. And good call on the 11--I didn't even catch that. Capndad: this was not so much a challenge as . . . an invitation. I know you have Interview and some others, but there's a lot of other stuff out there, so this is an invitation to hear some more of what they've done. If it still isn't your thing, cool, but at least you're listening! II'm definitely interested in what you think. And I believe gauntlets get thrown, but I'm not 100% on that.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  12. Groon says Okay, I have NO idea what's going on with my comments here. I posted something, didn't show up. I rewrote it, and then both showed up. I tried to delete one and sometimes both are gone, both are there. I'm done with it. Instead, let me say that capndad, I think you did an excellent job of defining GG's music in your analysis there, and in some ways better than I was able to do. IT wasn't about the hook or a catchy tune, though they did utilize those as well; it was about taking a musical idea and taking it wherever it leads, regardless of where that is. Music was the journey, not the destination, and they obviously were interested in taking the scenic route, having fun along the way. The result is fantastic and engaging music that defied categorization, simply because they refused to stick to a category. And I have to say I am really excited that you liked what you heard. The songs I posted videos from were from the albums Free Hand, The Power and the Glory, and Octopus, respectively, and they are all great albums. Those plus Interview make up for me what I consider to be the four absolutely "essential" albums. The earlier albums are good, but it definitely took a couple of albums to find their stride.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  13. capndad says What gives? I posted an epic in response to GG, but it's not here! Grrrr.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  14. capndad says Oh, there it is. Is there a timing process we need to be aware of??
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  15. Groon says yeah, I don't know what's going on with it. If I refresh the page, more recent comments aren't showing up. But if I go to it through my MOG page, they do show up. I agree, grrr . . .
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  16. capndad says Holy impressed Batman! I just listened to the Octopus Medley again. Fourth time tonight. I sense an immersion coming on. I just love the way the lead singer "directs." He's the guy at every party with the air guitar turned up real loud while showing the rest of us slobs when each instrument comes in on cue. The battle between the bass guitar piece and the keyboards was what tuned me into just how much the lead was into the whole thing. Very, very cool.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  17. ZZTodd says you have done a really good job with all of these prog posts.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  18. Groon says Thanks, ZZ! How's that Can treating you? ;-) I'm glad you've been enjoying them. There are still a couple of posts you've made recently I haven't had a chance to get to yet (listening at home isn't always easy around here). Capn: you point out another thing I love about GG: the singe, Derek Schulman, is insanely charismatic with his voice and his presence. There's a very clear sense of "orchestra" here, not with the instruments so much as with the fact that each piece has a separate part to play, all under the direction of someone who knows what the heck is going on and respects each person's ability to deliver, if that makes sense.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  19. ZZTodd says I'm loving my CAN album. I still need to get more! and I need to go back and listen to the rest of your prog rock posts as well.
    Permalink posted 02/05/2008
  20. Doomsayer2001 says Ha, the singer looks kinda like Jim Morrison in the 2nd vid... not to bad, I would probably never listen to this, especially with some lame band name like Gentle Giant. (Heh...) I mean, what gives?! If you have the ability to musically knock the crap outta somebody, then name your band appropriately. Like perhaps this "Gentle Giant? This Giant's Gonna Knock You On Your Ass!", now that's a band name! Btw... the 1st and 3rd vid are no longer available for our viewing pleasure.
    Permalink posted 03/01/2008
  21. Groon says Huh. I wonder why. That sort of stinks. I heard somewhere that that WAS going to be the band name, but they realized it wouldn't fit too well on all their artsy fartsy album covers, so they just stuck with the first two words. :-)
    Permalink posted 03/01/2008

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