Daniel Johnston Interview: Songs of Pain

So it's about 20 minutes before I'm supposed to do my interview with songwriting legend Daniel Johnston when my girlfriend Kim walks into the Comet Tavern. I'm drinking a Mac & Jacks African Amber and trying to get all of my notes and shit organized because I'm still under the misguided idea that I may actually be able to gear the upcoming conversation with the manic depressive musician into some direction of my choosing. Already, nothing is going as planned. I hand Kim a DV camera and inform her that she will be filming the interview and then ask her to watch all of my equipment and notes while I run to QFC to get film. I found out the day before that I would not be recieving the Digital SLR camera that I had ordered weeks prior (this situation will be covered in another article) and so I brought an old manual Cannon AE1 for which I had accidentally bought the wrong film, in my frenzy to reach the venue on time. I purchased new film and rushed back to the bar only to find out that the Camera battery was dead anyway, so I was fucked. No camera to go with the photopass. Another opportunity lost, but such is the way of MonsterFresh. As soon as we walk across the street to the venue, Neumos Crystal Ball Reading Room, I spot Daniel's brother/tour manager, Dick Johnston whom I recognized from the documentary. I shook his hand and he led me around the building so that we could get things rolling. If you have seen the film The Devil and Daniel Johnston, you may remember Dick as the brother who's ribs were broken by Daniel on Christmas. He set up the interview for me and is working as Daniel's tour manager. Their father is Daniel's manager and their sister Margie Johnston has been known to help with the management of his art. The family is very involved in Daniel's finances in such ways as insuring that he is paid sufficiently, that his rent is paid, that he has groceries, etc. We turn the corner and I see Daniel with his head lowered to the ground and smoking a cigarette. The front of his hair is yellowing from nicotine, he is wearing a faded black Spiderman T-shirt and a windbreaker, and he seems to be oblivious to who he is and what that actually means. He is standing very nonchalant outside of the building, as if he were unnoticible, when we approach. An employee of Neumos asks Daniel if he and/or Dick need anything in the way of food. Daniel has mentioned in the past that he is trying to lose the weight that he has gained over the years, no doubt due to his medication, so he makes sure to specify a "DIET" Coke in his request for a cheeseburger and fries. She says that she will go get some from a place down the street and, when Daniel implies that he will go up there himself, his brother/manager reminds him that he has a sound check to do and ushers him into the building as I follow behind. At this point, I haven't said shit and I am holding a vinyl copy of a live radio broadcast of Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. I picked it up at my favorite local record store for Daniel, knowing his infatuation with monsters, and figured that I could use it now as an ice-breaker, considering that he didn't even seem to react to the fact that I was there or wonder why. I say hello, inform him that I was there to do an interview, and give him the record. He responded with something to the effect of, "Man, this is really cool. I love Frankenstein!". Dick informs Daniel that it will take a minute for soundcheck and that now would be a good time to do an interview, so Daniel agrees and finds a round table in the corner of the venue next to a bunch of trashcans to sit at. As I walk across the room to find a chair of my own, I notice that a couple of fans have lurked in but are standing back respectfully. I pull up my chair, sit down in the Chip & Peppers I scored at a thrift store, and immediately realize that I'm sitting in gum. Not old hard gum, mind you, but fresh sticky warm gum and it's all over my ass. Fuck it! Just hit "RECORD". We're already in it. Let's do this thing.

Daniel Johnston: Hey Dick, could you get me a Diet Coke?

Dick Johnston: She said she's working on it Daniel!

Daniel Johnston: Oh, I mean, do they have anything to drink at the bar? Soda Pop or something?

Dick Johnston: She said she was gonna get you one Daniel

Daniel: Laughing Where is she? I mean, at the bar. I just need something to drink right now, that's all. towards me Okay. Sorry.

DEAD C: That's fine.

Daniel: noticing my notes I see you've done your research, huh?

Holding up the record I gave him Thank you for the Frankenstein album. I LOVE Frankenstein.

DC: I know.

He laughs

DC: I saw that today and I was like, "I better pick that up". I know you're a big fan.

He nods as the woman from Neumos places a can of Diet Coke on the table in front of him

Daniel: Thank you.

DC: And, so back then, your family wasn't as supportive.

Daniel: Uh, huh.

DC: But now, your family's really, really involved in everything you do?

Daniel: Uh, huh. Uh, huh.

DC: Is that, to you, kind of like a poetic irony?

Daniel: I really don't know. I really don't know what you said. But, y'know… shakes head I don't know.

DC:Your family's really supportive of you now though, right?

Daniel: Mmm, hmm.

DC: …Of your music?

he nods

DC: I heard something about you maybe doing something with Alternative Tentacles and you were also talking about a Christmas Album. Did anything happen with either of them?

Daniel: Uh…what was the question again?

DC: I read something where you just talked about possibly doing an album with Alternative Tentacles and…

Daniel: Mm hmmm. Yeah, well we're working on an album called Death of Satan with my group called Danny and the Nightmares. We've been working on it for about a year and we're looking forward to, y'know, eventually releasing it this year.

DC: And that's gonna be on that label?

Daniel: Mm hmm. That's the label we're shooting for, so we hope we can get it, yeah.

DC: You've mentioned a Christmas album, are you still thinking about doing that?

Daniel: Yeah, a Christmas album. We were were thinking about doing a Christmas album. Well, I had the fantasy of doing a Christmas album with The Butthole Surfers but, it never came around. But one of my producers always wanted to do a Christmas album.

DC: Do you still talk to Gibby (Haynes from The Butthole Surfers)?

Daniel: Yeah, I've seen him around. Yeah, I've seen him.

DC: Um, I know you've made a lot of films a long time ago…

Daniel: Uh, huh.

DC: …a lot of short films. And you have a lot of interest in art and music; do you do anything with the films still?

Daniel: Uhhhh…. Yeah, well we have been making some videos with the group and stuff. And y'know, the movie came out… last year, I guess. But, other than that, we've been doing a few videos that haven't been finished yet.

DC: After you saw the movie- I know you've seen it (The Devil And Daniel Johnston) quite a few times now

Daniel: Mm hmm.

DC: Did it make you want to keep documenting your life or did it make you, kind of, want to slow down? Because they had so much of your life at once. That must have been a lot to watch.

Daniel: Just happened, over in an instant. It's like my life is over the minute they put it on the show. laughing uncomfortably Sure was embarrasing.

DC: Was it?

Daniel: But it was kind of funny. I think it has a sense of humor. It's more like me sitting right here talking to you now. you're probably thinking, "Oh, what an idiot."-

DC: No

Daniel: I was an idiot in the film. That's how I felt, y'know. But I thought it had a sense of humor. Even though they're laughing at me, at least they're laughing.

DC: You see, I didn't see it like that. It was really exposed but, as far as if you see it that way… I've been in a mental ward too, y'know.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. I know… boy was that hard to do. I was in a mental hospital for 5 years of my life. And I wasn't writing, and I wasn't even drawing that much. It was just a desperate attempt to have a cigarette by the (end of) the whole thing.

DC: Yeah.

both laugh

DC: We had cigarettes when I was in there-

Daniel: Yeah, Yeah.

DC: So that was nice.

Daniel: They provided cigarettes?

DC: Uh, no. They had a little room… a little area.

Daniel: Yeah. Well, I didn't smoke until I was staying in one place and they said, "Here's a cigarette- Smoke break." And they would give us cigarettes. So-

DC: That's how I started too.

Daniel: -I started smoking just for the heck of it. And then when I went to a different one, no cigarettes. Y'know? And I was like- Every time I'd get a carton of cigarettes, I gave everybody cigarettes. I was like Mr. Popular. And then when I ran out of cigarettes NO ONE would give ME a cigarette. So that just goes to show you… laughs

DC: Yeah, they told me I was borderline narcissistic and hypomanic.

He nods and takes a swig off of his soda can

DC: And um… the medication. That must have made it difficult for you to write. When did you finally-

Daniel: Well, they were just experimenting on me like a guinea pig. I mean they didn't even talk. The doctors never talked to me. They just kept shoving pills down our throats, y'know. When I finally did get out and get the right medication- It's been the longest time… and I am a manic depression. I have severe- (or) HAD severe depression. But because of the right medication, it's been about ten, fifteen years now, and I've been on top of things and haven't had to go back to a hospital. So I really am grateful for that.

DC: Yeah.

Daniel: It's pretty good stuff I get. I get some anti-depressants. The first time I got it, I was bedridden for a year, thinking I was damned by god or something. Right? And then they gave me the Elavil anti-depressant. I was up the next day, climbed up the hill to my old piano and I started writing songs right away. And, first thing I knew, I went to New York and recorded my album 1990.

DC: That's a great album too.

Daniel: Thanks.

DC: 'cuz I listen to a lot of the early stuff.

Daniel: Uh, huh.

DC: Were you recording those albums, like Hi, How are you?, Were you just recording them on a tape recorder.

Daniel: Mm hmm.

DC: Because it sounds like on 1990, the production changed and you could hear everything really well.

Daniel: Mmm hmmm nods

DC: Is that the moment that you felt like you just broke through the medication? When you went up there and played.

Daniel: Yeah. You mean… to New York?

DC: Well, yeah. I mean, you call it a "Lost Year", right?

Daniel: Uh, huh.

DC: After that… (I'm wondering) what that moment is where you felt like you could do that again.

Daniel: Yeah. I just started writing again snaps You know, right away. It comes down to medication. And I tell everyone in the Rock N Roll business that do drugs- Speed, and everything else… get high on marijuana and everything. If they really want to be a Rock N Roller, they outta go to a doctor and ask them for some antidepressants, or different kind of pills, for whatever their ill is. And you get a lot better buzz off prescription medicine. More than smoking marijuana all the time, y'know.

DC: Yeah.

Daniel: But it's the truth. I feel great a lot of the times and I don't get depressed anymore like I used to, which is a real miracle.

DC: I also read something about a film that wasn't a documentary. You had some people (who) were talking about making and actual… like… a movie.

Daniel: Right.

DC: And you had said that you would maybe want to star in it? What's the deal with that?

Daniel: Yeah. I hope to make more movies and I wanted to direct my own movie, y'know, for fun. That's what I plan to do.

DC: You're also into a lot of comics. Are you interested in the Iron Man movie that's coming out at all, or are you not even into Iron Man very much?

Daniel: Oh, I love Iron Man. They wanted me to draw the drawing for the movie.

DC: Oh, really?

Daniel: nods For the poster. Y'know? So I did a bunch of them. I don't think they'll be able to use 'em. I mean, if they like them, they could but I'm sure they could get someone to do better than the ones I did. I don't know, but… it's like a new Iron Man movie. And then, on top of that, they designed a shoe-

I stare at his plain white shoes

Daniel: smiling These aren't it

DC: Laughing Oh, Okay.

Daniel: But they want me to design a shoe with my drawings in it.

We both laugh

Daniel: What will they think of next?

DC: Who's that?

Daniel: Converse.

DC: Oh, okay. Nice.

Daniel: reaching into his pocket I can't smoke right here?

KIM (GF): Yeah, I think you have to go outside.

Daniel: Okay….okay

DC: So, I know you're a huge Beatles fan.

Daniel: Mm hmm.

DC: Songs like Greivances kind of sound a little more like Bob Dylan. Do you listen to a lot of Dylan?

Daniel: Oh, Bob Dylan's right up there with all my heroes. That's for sure.

DC: So, when you talk about Jack Kirby, you talk about someone whos work wasn't as good as his other work-

Daniel: Uh, no

DC: -but you could still see the-

Daniel: Oh, I'm a die hard fan of Kirby. I just got back, I had almost $500 worth of Kirby comics and books I bought at the comic book store here in town (Seattle) and uh…. so I do love Kirby laughs It's like the Beatles too, y'know. I can't get enough. I got all the bootlegs and stuff, and I can never get enough.

DC: Do you think it's the same kind of thing with your early recordings? 'Cuz I still listen to 'em and even though they've become digital and are on CDs.

Daniel: Right.

DC: Even though you don't have the studio, you can still hear the music come through. And then you get to something like 1990 where the production shows what you were doing with a little bit better sound.

reaches for cigarettes again

DC: And then nowadays, when you do songs like your song The Beatles it's really confident and the production is up there. Do you think you have the same quality (as Kirby) and that's why people still want to listen to those old recordings, even though they were made so lo-fi?

Daniel: Well. slams back and tosses soda can I'm trying to get better production, y'know.

DC: Mm hmm.

Daniel: I recorded with Paul leary and we did the album called Fun, on Atlantic. We're thinking about doing another album: Fun 2. Y'know, the second Fun album. And I'm planning top do some recording with Mark Linkous again of the band Sparklehorse. I've been working on that for a few years too, so…

DC: So that's a sequel to the first Sparklehorse album…

Daniel: That's right. That's right, there's a lot of different projects in the making. grabs cigarette out and puts it back into the pack

DC: It's just what the medication was, right? Because when you were doing shows for a while you would go off of the meds.

Daniel: Right.

DC: Is that because you didn't feel like you could do 'em without them?

Daniel: Uh….

DC: But when you got the right ones you felt like you could?

Daniel: Uh…shrugs yeah…. I don't think I'd ever like, re-record. Unless I did like a greatest hits and then I'd like to make some new arrangements, y'know.

Fan (behind me): Yeah, fucking awesome.

Daniel: laughing That'd be cool.

[At this point, Daniel is holding his smokes and is shaking a bit again, so I know it's probably time to wind down]

DC: I know you work on comics and you work on maybe getting comic books. But your art- You sell it so fast.

Daniel: Uh, huh.

DC: So you don't really have these steps or back catalog. But you have a lot of, you know…the devil in your pictures. Do you look at that (Satan) as the opposite of art? Do you look at art as your spirituality? Or as just like a medium to express yourself?

Daniel: tapping Kools on table & nodding contemplatively I agree.

DC: Is that how you see your artwork?

Continue to Full Interview>>