SOUNDS OF FUTURE PAST AND PRESENT PERFECT

Jazzophobia

Posted about 1 year ago

"How do I loathe thee? Let me count the ways..." could be the title for all the rambling diatribes against jazz offered by my friend D. whenever our conversations turn to the subject of music that I like. (It so happens that I'm quite fond of the music of Satchmo)

To start with, D. doesn't like the straw-hatted-clarinet-and-horn-blowing music which he says must have been the classic form of the genre. — He seems to forget that jazz is not confined within New-Orleans or any precise geography for that matter. But let's not interrupt him while he's "rhapsodising."

D. isn't keen on the celerity of the notes played by each musician trying to outdo his bandmates. What's the fun in a musical joust for brilliance and virtuosity on chord variations if the result is some tangential nowhere? Really, jazz could be more purposeful. He's not against improvisation per se but would rather know where everyone stands (like in classical music for instance?).

D. doesn't care much for fusion or experimentation either. How can you expect people to like your music if you go on and on for 20, 30 minutes or even more? Haven't the Sun Ra, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Pharoah Sanders ever heard of the average attention span? Haven't you realised this is era of instant gratification? — It's an MTV world, give us music clips. We don't want any Panorama!

D. is not particular enthused by singing jazz either. They all sound like bad pop, too much emphasis on melodies not enough on the songs! Also, most singers are too old for anyone to identify with them. Granted, you may have Norah Jones or Jamie Cullum who are young and hip but their music is not "real jazz," is it?...

Believe it or not, I've always found D.'s objections hard to comprehend. If you like music, why would you dislike jazz? - You know they say it's difficult to explain love. Well, I say it is also impossible to understand a person's aversion to the very same thing which you enjoy. I'm aware that his jazzophobia may be very well justified.

Let's face it jazz is not an easily likeable genre. Most of the standards lack a recognisable melody, something easy to hum or whistle — which results in the lack of air time, creating a vicious circle or a jazz ghetto. It is also true that it is a more demanding genre than your average pop music (but aren't the rewards all the greater for it?). Nowadays if at all consumed, instrumental music is also preferred as background music. Strident and/or sudden changes of chord hardly make the best accompaniment to dinners and cocktail parties.

There are many more factors which could help explain D.'s jazzophobia. Key among them is the elitist views on jazz. For instance, mention the name of Michael Bublé. You'll be immediately frowned upon by jazzophiles who'd never call it jazz. "It's not real jazz!" would be their retort. — There's a book entitled "Girls Don't Like Real Jazz" by Walter Kolosky.

Jazz, it seems, has become the preserve of the happy few, who truly understand music. Those who can quote the different musicians on each of the 36 versions of "My Favorite Things" recorded by Coltrane by heart. Being a dilettante, I'm not bothered with such distinctions. I'm glad that people buy Norah Jones's discs because I believe the true music lovers will seek out more about the origins of her songs and the genre in which they're inscribed.

People often make the mistake of wanting to feel the music and then will blame jazz for failing to give them any sensations. They forget that listening is an active act requiring their participation. Only when they commit to it by actively making it theirs will they be able to "feel" the music. There must be an initial spark within for the kindling to burn.

Most of the time, I refrain from counting the ways in which I love jazz as nothing can disgust more than over-enthusiasm. While I appreciate the erudition available on such and such records (recording date, number of takes, musicians and so on), I don't forget these details can also awfully tedious. — I prefer letting the music do the talking. To be more precise, I'll let Thelonious Monk speak for me.

I sincerely believe that "l'appétit vient en mangeant:" by listening to jazz one cannot fail to feel the sound, the sensuousness, the sheer beauty of it and eventually come to enjoy the music. This is the optimistic view on jazzophobia: that someone's tastes can change provided they're curious enough.

If you're so inclined, perhaps will you perceive how Monk plays on his very own beat, "subdividing in so many different ways that where he actually chooses to place the note is played against the implied rhythm." You may also want to check out his solo: a quirky improvisation at times noisy but sparkling throughout. If you prefer, you can also enjoy how Charlie Rouse's sax keeps up with Monk's idiosyncratic metronome...

Now, I will understand if your jazzophobia has grown even stronger after reading this inane screed of mine. I won't blame you. Please do not let my clumsy wording stop from listening to the music. If Monk's "Bright Mississippi" is still unpalatable why not try some Duke Ellington & John Coltrane (in the comments)?

Note:
Thelonious Monk: piano
Charlie Rouse: tenor sax
John Ore: bass
Frankie Dunlop: drums
Recorded 11 Jan. 1962 at the Columbia 30th Street Studio, NY

(PS: For comfort when reading, please view this post on my MOG-page)

Comments (57)

  1. Bartleby says Please don't bother with the words, enjoy the tunes. Herewith, Duke Ellington & John Coltrane - In a Sentimental Mood (4:18)
    From AMG: "For this classic encounter, Duke Ellington "sat in" with the John Coltrane Quartet for a set dominated by Ellington's songs; some performances have his usual sidemen (bassist Aaron Bell and drummer Sam Woodyard) replacing Jimmy Garrison and Elvin Jones in the group.[...]Their version of "In a Sentimental Mood" is a high point, and such numbers as "Take the Coltrane," "Big Nick," and "My Little Brown Book" are quite memorable. Ellington always recognized talent, and Coltrane seemed quite happy to be recording with a fellow genius."
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  2. Bartleby says Whenever D. says: "I can't stand jazz," I always ask him: "Well, don't you like Dave Brubeck?" Dave Brubeck Quartet - Take Five (live in Berlin) To D: "Don't tell me you didn't groove on US3!" US 3 - Cantaloop (Which is remix of this vv) Herbie Hancock - Cantaloupe Island
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  3. Wahiawa786 says If you start insisting that only a certain school/type of Jazz is The True Jazz, you're sliding on the slippery slope that leads to...Classical music! Seriously, I find "Bitches Brew"-era Miles Davis' a bit hard to take, but that's only because it sounds a tad pointless. (Yes, we all live in the Pointless Forest, so EVERYTHING has a point.) One former test of new-to-me music is does it brighten even a day when mother nature is having a tantrum. If it does, I consider it Jazz-like. If it makes me want to stand outside in the raging storm with a lightning rod in each hand, it might be the Blues. Excuse me, PBS Hawaii ran "A Night With Jimmy Borges," and it's time for some night music.
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  4. Rawkkiddoh says I wish I knew more about Jazz to write something of more value than I like this. My collection is jazz-scarce, but every so often something will catch my ear and I will head out and buy it. I think its my lack of knowledge in the genre that causes me to hold up on a purchase, but I dont think I have ever been disappointed when I bought a jazz album
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  5. Cody B says Who is this D? Does D stand for zarpex? Monk is a good choice, I think, to bring someone into the fold. Right before the ascension of Rock and Roll, Jazz was on TV and on the charts. I think anybody who's into music for any amount of time, with any shred of an open mind, can find some Jazz to love. You've got some great options here.. I mean there are punk rockers who like the loudest, shit-kickingest free jazz and I know a bunch of folks who swear by electric Miles for their Jazz fix. Then there's the new groovy jazzers like Bad Plus or Medeski,Martin, and Wood. Melodies, c'mon.there's melodies for days all over the jazz firmament. Jazz does finite pretty well too..is he trying to tell me Sketches of Spain doesn't have a point? Might as well get on the bandwagon,D, because eventually you will fall..If you don't, you are missing a world of music.
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  6. Spike says Check out John Scofield with bassist Dennis Chambers.
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  7. toronno says I haven't heard much of T. Monk, Bartleby so thanks for this. I definitely like it.
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  8. Spike says Bartleby, that Brubeck video was a real treat for me because Paul Desmond is as good an alto player as I've ever heard, and I had never seen him perform before. Brubeck's solo was quite all right as well. Your thoughts on jazz were engaging and made sense.
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  9. Spike says Right on. Actually, many genres of music we listen to have lots of improvisation.
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  10. ivylander says To me, the crux of your post is in this paragraph: D. isn't keen on the celerity of the notes played by each musician trying to outdo his bandmates. What's the fun in a musical joust for brilliance and virtuosity on chord variations if the result is some tangential nowhere? Really, jazz could be more purposeful. He's not against improvisation per se but would rather know where everyone stands (like in classical music for instance?). Jazz - to me, anyhow - is all about voicings. Sometimes it's the arranger's (like with Gil Evans), more often it's with the instrumentalist. The greatness of jazz may possibly be how, when it's on, it combines the deliberateness of the mind with the freeness of the spirit. It embraces the full spectrum of us as humans. It's play in the most profound sense. I am cringing as I say all this, as it sounds unbelievably undergraduate, but at the same time I really do think it's true....
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  11. downhome says Duke and Trane: Memorable, simple, shorn of affectation. If you don't like this, you don't like music, period (with or without labels). Many thanks.
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  12. Spike says I answered ivylander too early, too close to Berkeley.
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  13. ivylander says Spike, it's pretty hard to be too close to Berkeley...
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  14. Spike says Berkeley's great, I know. But this Mog anomaly happened to me earlier today with the popular Anna (from Greece). I got an email that she had commented after me, and I thought up a retort. Rather than wait for someone else to comment before me and for her to never hear about my retort or read it, I rushed mine off, only to realize it ended up above hers, as in the case here. I suddenly realized these glitches are because of satellite transmission time, or at least that's my theory.
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  15. Jonh Ingham says It's got a beat and you can dance to it. I'll give it a 75. (Wait a minute...Am I on the right page?)
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  16. Augusts1 says Great pieces Michael. I enjoy a bit of jazz every now & again but not into it all that much as I used to be in college. I went through a serious stage of discovery in jazz but it was mainly the new contemporary jazz artists back in the early '80s. I got rather bored by jazz & moved on to more interesting(in my book) rock musicians & bands. I know it takes a refined taste to truly get into & appreciate the jazz greats, but they've never been my style for longer than a song or two. I tend to like new & different sounds. Looking back is good for awhile to see where music has come from, it's roots, but I'm always looking for music that pushes the boundaries.
    Permalink posted 06/11/2008
  17. Bartleby says

    It seems we have a new lay-out which has eaten all my paragraphs and line-breaks making my crazy ramblings even more indigestible. Apologies to all.

    Wahiwa786: I don't make any distinction between "real jazz" and the rest simply because jazz is an ever elusive genre. I can't think of any all encompassing definition which could reflect the reality of the music. I must say your criterion for jazz is operational and very inspiring too. Thank you for sharing this with us.

    Rawkiddoh: What you said about never being disappointed with a jazz purchase is exactly how I started with the genre. Not knowing anything about jazz, I would usually go for the standards: Charlie Parker, Dizzie Gillespie, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong. I was really surprised to hear how they all sound incredibly fresh even to 21st century ears. I think it's best not to let all the literature and erudition spoil the fun of the music.

    Cody B: D. is a friend who's basically allergic to jazz even though he likes all sort of music. This is what makes his objections all the harder to understand. -- I personally blame the bad reputation of jazz among younger people on the lack of airplay. It's become an alien genre to so many people now that they're scared to really listen to it... That was the whole idea behind this post: dusting it off. To present jazz as something many people already enjoy without realising it.

    Toronno: I'm glad I could share it with. -- Some call Monk a "classic" that is to say often name checked but seldom listened.

    Spike: I agree with you that jazz influence has pervaded all modern genres of music. Improvisation can be traced in live performances, rock jam sessions and so on. -- My aim with this post was to cast aways all the assumed complexes people may have regarding jazz. I really hope that some visitors will be curious enough to check out the music for themselves (and not let their prejudice get the best of it) -- That Paul Scofield is mind blowing. Dennis Chambers's bass is really explosive!

    Downhome: I couldn't agree more. It's hard to envisage the love of music while excluding any particular genre. -- Glad you like the Duke & Trane

    Ivy: If only you could have been around when D. was making this objectio!!! "the deliberateness of the mind with the freeness of the spirit" is the best definition of jazz I've ever heard. Thank you for chiming in (from Berkeley or its vicinity)

    Jonh: What can I say? I'm not even sure it's my post anymore.

    Aug: Allow me to disagree with you. It doesn't take any more refined sense to enjoy jazz than it does to listen to Portishead. It's the same principle of wanting to explore more. -- Jazz may seem congealed but I can assure you an artist like Herbie Hancock is still quite revolutionary  (see his "Rockit" for instance)

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  18. FluxCapacitor says

    "Incidentally, there's a book entitled "Girls Don't Like Real Jazz"" - that makes me a girl, so. But I'm trying. I really like In a Sentimental Mood. Sublime listening, thanks!

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  19. contrabandwidth says

    Spike, Dennis Chambers is the drummer, just for clarification.

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  20. Bartleby says

    FluxC: It fine by me. I read somewhere you fancy yourself quite a bit. It's all natural. -- Believe me there's no such a thing as "real jazz." -- The Duke Ellington & John Coltrane was recorded in 1962 as an attempt from his label to re-instate Coltrane's jazz. He was already doing some quite radical experimentations which were then deemed not real jazz. As you can see, it's hard to tell what's not real jazz.

    Contra: Thank you for the precision. I would have sworn that was a bassist by that name..

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  21. CeeOhBee says

    Hi B, I tried to comment on your post yesterday, but the "write comment" link would not let me pass. I guess I didn't have the right password. I thought it was "green. no blue!!" Nevermind . . . anyway, I had a longer thought in my head yesterday, but today I'm exhausted. I will tell you that your post put me in mind of two depressing years in my undergrad past. I, a musician, had the terrible misfortune to make two friends who not only didn't like jazz, THEY DIDN'T LIKE MUSIC. Period. No music!!!? One was my roommate. My year in hell. It was a nightmare. In the case of D, I have only one explanation. I think he just has a hole in his soul. In the case of my old roommate, I think she was an alien. I swear, she would watch TV when there was nothing but static. That was her PREFERRED channel! She had to be contacting the mother ship. Freak.

    In any case, I have news for D. He doesn't really know classical music either. And, in a sense, none of us do, at least not in it's true form. You tell D this. During the time, classical (I keep the "C" small because I assume your friend lumps all music such as Baroque, Classical, Romantic, et al.) musicians were gifted IMPROVISERS. In fact, any soloist worth their salt improvised their cadenzas during concerti. And, for that matter, even today, not all classical music (and I'm talking about the living museum performances of say Beethoven, Bach, et al. not contemporary music) is the same. Change one variable, namely the conductor, or the orchestra, or even the last chair second violin, and you have an entirely different recipe and interpretation. Two clicks up or down on the metronome can alter a piece dramatically. And, I dare say that D has not analyzed classical music enough to possibly be able to hear everything that is going on in that music. In other words, I don't believe that he knows where everyone stands. 

    Forgive me, but I get very bitter about conversations such as these because people assume they know something about one genre, while shunning another because it's nothing like that genre (which could NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH, each have so much more in common than he knows), but worse, they close their minds and their souls to a fresh perspective. One thing I will agree with, or perhaps agree to something D has tacitly stated: Jazz takes your whole mind to understand. And, he's not willing to use his for jazz.

    Jazz is as enigmatic as it is beautiful. It is not to be taken lightly, even back in the day when it was assumed background or dance music. As you know, Ellington was no background music! But, neither is any music to be taken lightly that one mistakenly or even arrogantly assumes they have a handle on. I wouldn't assume that. EVER. And I'm trained!! If I were to look at any one piece, or great jazz arrangement, even with the simplest of pieces, I learn something new each time I re-examine it. Sorry B. I know D is your friend, but I have no words of help for you today. Only some disgust, I think. I think on a stronger day, I'd make a longer case, though it would take more like months, I think, to a person such as D. So, I close with this remark whilst shaking my head and throwing my hands up to the Heavens in confusion and surrender:

    "You can lead a whore to culture, but you can't make her think."

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  22. CeeOhBee says

    I think my coffee just kicked in. Or, I dunno, I got a little spark of actual info as opposed to a rant. If you plan to keep D alive, and want to help his unborn children (though, please tell me you've had him neutered) I highly suggest you get him to read a book about audience reception of various famous pieces of the classical, romantic, etc. eras. I am going to try to find the title of one that describes almost riotous anger from audiences that didn't like the first performances of pieces by the world's most famous composers. The reason for that was that they DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS COMING! When composers took risks and tried to go for something new, audiences tended to just freak the hell out. Here's a book he might check out: After the Golden Age: Romantic Pianism and Modern Performance, by Kenneth Hamilton. It talks about this, but only regarding the ilk of Liszt, Paderewski, Chopin and those involved in piano. But, it makes the point that people didn't know what was coming, but in the end, learned to love and even accept it.

    My point is this. If our forefathers/mothers learned to accept the original musics of their time. Now, as a result, your friend D finds it comforting and almost commonplace (or so it would seem.) Maybe if he learned to think of it that way, he would try jazz. But, then again, how horrible to think that one would find jazz commonplace and comforting. I rarely find music to be either, but maybe that's my own problem. Let's just say that music never serves to quiet me in any way. It makes me think and think and think.

    Enough wind from the west. I hope this was the least bit interesting.

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  23. Bartleby says

    I'm afraid D. will hate me even more for portraiting him as a dullard when he is actually one the smartest person I've known. -- There's no accounting for his misunderstanding of jazz. The above is a sort of compendium of our exchanges over several conversations.

    Cee, I wish you could have been present when we had those chatters. I'm sure you would have been able to make him see the notes. I feel like he's missing out on lots of musical excitement by refusing to listen to jazz. But in D's case, I do believe it's an allergy of some sort... (Maybe, he got hit with a jazz record when he was a child and had been traumatised ever since)

    (PS: Have I mentioned that your wits are ever so precious with or without cafeine? Thank you ever so much for your contribution, Cee)

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  24. CeeOhBee says

    I'm have no wit. I just have a bag-o-surly that I fling at others in judgment and avarice. I really should see someone about having that removed. It might be a tumor!

    As for an allergy to jazz, I think I can step that up a notch. Maybe D doesn't have an allergy, but actually lacks an enzyme to metabolize jazz. Like for instance, I have this friend, T, who lacks the enzyme to metabolize cilantro (I think you guys call it coriander). To her it tastes like she's having her mouth washed out with very bitter soap. Maybe to D, jazz is the ear equivalent of having that very bad un-metabolized taste lingering there. If I look at it this way, it allows me to believe that your friend really is lovely and smart and without that aforementioned puncture in his personal ozone. (Ok, that was kind of witty and not surly. I hope that made up for my pre-caffeinated state. In any case, forgive me for being a pillock on occasion. Oh, and is that how you spell pillock? how about bugger?)

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  25. CeeOhBee says

    oh, now there's a nice retarded but oh so appropriate typo . . .I meant to say I HAVE NO WIT, not "I'm have no wit." beautiful. I think I might have to start saying that, though, just to perfect my personal best at neo-neanderthalism, or however the hell you spell that. I refuse to grammar check the rest. I've done enough damage to your post. 

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  26. Bartleby says

    I didn't know you need a special enzyme to appreciate coriander. Good god, imagine what it'd like for your friend to live in the UK with all the Indian restaurants using it in many dishes...

    If there's a pillock around here, it's me. I forget every word other word whenever I write/type...

    Merci encore pour tous, Cee

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  27. zarpex says

    I'm a big fan of jazz, actually.  Well, the early stuff, anyway.  The New Orleans school, especially.  But it wandered gradually away from music and into musicianship.  And that tss, t-t-tss, t-t-tss on the ride cymbal got tired fast...

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  28. CeeOhBee says

    ok, I know this is way way off the subject now, but here's my final statement. I was looking for a little medical proof about the enzyme (I know I have read that somewhere and it seemed legit) but instead found this site. it made me laugh a little. there must be some site somewhere about hating jazz for similar reasons. for those people, I hope I never find it because, well, aforementioned bag-o-surly would probably open a can-o-cyber-whoop-ass. here's the funny place to go. but, it's not nearly as cool as tittyshakers.com

    http://www.ihatecilantro.com/taste.php

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  29. CeeOhBee says

    hey!! I found the info. it's tiny print, but the taste is PTC (studied this in 8th grade science class.) http://www.ihatecilantro.com/research/ptcandcilantro.html

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  30. levek says

    Great post, Michael!

    Personally, I love all kinds of music (including jazz) as long as the music I'm listening to is made and performed to touch the soul, and not a cold exercise in virtuosity.  Unfortunately, that happens in all kinds of music but more often in jazz and classical music. 

    I don't really want to be astonished, I want to be touched.  I want to see pictures in my head.

    In the jazz domain, Scandinavian modern jazz has often been able to strum the strings of my heart and open up vistas in my brain. 

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  31. madrid spacestation spain says

    everyone has said so much and i'm not in the speaking mood anymore today, but this is a brillant post man! excellent reading

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  32. amber says

    I don't pretend to know much about jazz, although I've been know to enjoy some of the classic artists and I think the whole Marsalis family are amazing.  And although you point out, correctly, that jazz isn't exclusive to New Orleans and her surrounds, I challenge anyone to walk down the streets of that gorgeous city and not be entranced by the sounds coming from the open doors and windows.  One of my most magical, musical moments was watching the men of Preservation Hall do their thing.

    I personally think you have to be careful not to turn up your nose at any art.  Eventually, you may have to eat your words.

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  33. Bartleby says

    (Once again, MOG seems to hold up the notifications... Apologies to everyone for not getting back sooner)

    Zarpex: I must confess I'm too ignorant to distinguish any irritating tss-tss. So I'm condemned to enjoy it unbeknownst to myself. I really like the NOLA jazz too! -- Thanks for popping in.

    Cee: My very restricted understating on the chemistry of taste tells me that it's more a matter of neuronal receptors (in the tongue but also chemical stimuli in the nose) than enzymatic reactions. As with every stimulus, the human brain must learn to break down all the information it receives. -- Of all senses I do believe that taste is the one you can develop and master. That's why some children "hate" salad or tomatoes for instance. So those who can't taste coriander need only train their tongue to distinguish at first a grassy note then a more "flowery" note (akin to lilies actually) and finally a hint of tanginess. -- I also understand that as any other nervous function you can lack the receptors/decoders to assimilate coriander (In music, I believe it's amusicality). (More info on the chemistry of taste over here)

    Levek: Thank you ever so much for your kind comments, Réjean. The beauty and trouble with MOG is that we're all music heads. Still I didn't expect to be preaching to the choir with this. Foolishly enough, I was trying to dust off the old notions of jazz and why people couldn't stand it... As you've said, a music that comes from the heart like jazz can't fail to touch our soul.

    MSS: Thank you wall-jumping daredevil for popping in. (It's hard to come by someone who enjoys my crazy ramblings)

    Amber: New-Orleans sounds like one of the most musical cities in the world. I would like to go there if only to sample their Cajun French! (Love their accent) -- I think the Marsalis family do a wonderful work of keeping the jazz traditions alive among youngsters.

    Permalink posted 06/12/2008
  34. Anna says

    Michael, I'm a recent appreciator of jazz music. Till I came where I am now, I didn't like jazz, it felt all over the place to me. I like it now, and quite a bit for that matter [mostly jazz with vocals on top], but I can understand how someone might not like it. There are some genres of music that I wouldn't touch with a ten meter pole {like country}, but you know, not all types of music are for everybody, such are our ears.

    PS I'm sure there is bad jazz, just like there is a bad version of any other genre, I'd never utterly embrace one.

    Permalink posted 06/13/2008
  35. SerenityLife says

    As the daughter of a jazzaholic whose best friend is a jazz musician, I had to appreciate jazz music or I would be disowned. If it were not for "The Cosby Show" in the USA making jazz music cool and even Seasame Street loving Jazz music then I probably would not appreciate it like I do now. In fact, my father's friend played with the Sesame Street jazz band but he never took me on the set. I am still WAITING for that trip. The jazz musician I know is Bobby Cranshaw.

    Bob Cranshaw mini bio

    http://www.vervemusicgroup.com/artist/default.aspx?aid=3473

    Two nights ago on PBS I saw a WONDERFUL documentary on Duke Ellington and the genius behind his jazz music. See here

    http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/billystrayhorn/

    I am a litttle biased on the documentary that Ken Burns did about Jazz only because I know some individuals who worked on the documentary and they felt so many other unsung stories should have been included but you know that is life!

    http://www.pbs.org/jazz

    In addition to instrumental jazz, I do love the vocals. Ella Fitgzgerald was my heart. I truly loved her duets with Louis Armstrong. Too precious to me.

    Thank you for sharing!

    Permalink posted 06/13/2008
  36. Bartleby says

    Anna: I used to think that jazz is a matter of age until I met this teenager who lent me his iPod. It was filled with Django Reinhardt and early jazz musicians (the names of which I've forgotten now). Besides someone who appreciates DJ Shadow is bound to appreciate Jazz. After all, his approach to music is very ex-tempore too. In vocal jazz, may I suggest you give Cassandra Wilson a listen or two?

    Serenity: Thank you for popping in. I've always of living in the middle of creative people and jazz musician. You're a lucky lady ;)

    Permalink posted 06/13/2008
  37. Scotch says

    Lovely post, Bartleby.

    Jazz may well be my favorite genre - across generations and sub-genres, and though my MP3 collection has fewer than 800 Jazz and Blues tracks, my CD collection has far, far more. Funny how my music collection is nothing like the representation online.

    I can add very little to what has already been said. But unless I missed it, no one mentioned that the snobbery in the jazz world that you think may keep some people away also exists in every genre I can think of. I think it just goes with the musical territory.

    Permalink posted 06/13/2008
  38. poebegone says

    Michael, this is an excellent post. i love Thelonious Monk, too, and Monk's Dream conjures a lot of personal memories.

    it so happens i am having the opposite mojo at the moment, having just declared (in a post) that sometimes all i really want is noise that blows my eardrums out. i took creative license with that statement, of course, but i do take issue with one little thing you wrote: "Jazz, it seems, has become the preserve of the happy few, who truly understand music." that aside, the sarcastic and sardonic parts of your post are not lost on me. (:

    Permalink posted 06/14/2008
  39. Bartleby says

    Scotch: Snobbery is indeed a great disservice to jazz and to classical music. Indeed, I failed to get this point across in explaining why some people may be averse to the genre. -- Contrabandwidth has written a brilliant piece about his love for the music and hate for the "aura" (obscure, elitist, snobbish music). If you fancy continuing the discussion, it's over here.

    Poe: Thank you for your kind words. "Jazz, it seems, has become the preserve of the happy few, who truly understand music" was meant as an ironic comment on how jazz has been hijacked by the elitist cognoscenti. My point, which I failed to get across miserably, is that no one should feel a complex in regards to jazz. All the discourse produced by the experts and historians serves only to discourage people who only want to listen to good music. -- I'm with you on craving for "noise that blows my eardrums out" and to me some jazz can be that scream that works havoc to your cochlea.

    Permalink posted 06/14/2008
  40. poebegone says

    Michael, when i tail-ended my comment with a nod to the sarcasm of your post, it was exactly so you could tell me, i was hoping, that indeed the quoted statement was meant to be ironic. you got your point across very clearly - i had to be sure and i should have had more faith besides. ;d

    ps- ergophobia! yes.

    Permalink posted 06/14/2008
  41. Bartleby says

    Hahah, they say the devil is in the details. And you my dear Ilay are diabolical :p (I better mind my words before commenting anywhere especially if you and Sunny Helen are around)

    Permalink posted 06/14/2008
  42. poebegone says

    Michael, may I introduce you to Dawn? She is diabolical. Ô

    Permalink posted 06/14/2008
  43. Bartleby says

    I'd better say a prayer

    (You're going to get me into trouble if she's only 10 :p)

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  44. dimitra says

    "Girls don't like real jazz"...heeeeeyyyyy...I am a girl! :) great post, thank you!

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  45. Bartleby says

    Well, it's Mr Kolosky's contention not mine. I used to know the most charming lady who would play Miles Davis's version of "Porgy & Bess" every time her lover shared her bed. (I told her I preferred "Sketches of Spain :p)

    Thank you very much indeed for proving Mr Kolosky's book wrong.

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  46. Mike the Knife says

    Frankly, Bart (Bartly, Frank?), I don't quite trust anyone who doesn't like and/or appreciate jazz - which, along with rock and roll, blue jeans and corn, is one of America's greatest gifts to the world.

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  47. Mike the Knife says

    Oh yeah. Top-gear post, Bartleby!

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  48. Bartleby says

    Thank you for your kind comments, Mike. -- Very true, the US of A have not only given the world a highly flimsy monetary system but also our only true modern popular music. Jazz is a word which defies all boundaries. I don't think there's a single country in the world that doesn't their own strain of that music. Which makes it all the more puzzling when you hear people say: '"I don't get/like jazz."

    As Django said: "It don't mean a thing if it got that swing!"

    Permalink posted 06/15/2008
  49. Davis Presley says

    Great post.  Good back-and-forth goin' on here with the Moggers/Mogettes.

    I love the music but I know exactly what you're talking about.  I have a bunch of friends whose name could be substituted for "D."  I know who I can talk about jazz with, and who I can't. 

    The mention of it being an "American gift" is true.  Why someone like Duke Ellington is not held in the same breath as Elvis, Dylan, The Beatles, or James Brown is beyond me.  It's an art form that dominated for decades, and kinda got pushed to the back burner when rock-n-roll arrived.  Since then it's been taken off the stove and put on a warming plate.  It's still ready to be devoured but the people are not that hungry for it.  Where the hell did the cooking  comparison come from?

    It's also a genre that doesn't get a push from the industry.  Why sell jazz when you can shovel meaningless crap in your earhole instead.  It may satisfy you for now, but will it still be there in 5-10 years.  Forget that!  Will it still be there in 5-10 months is more like it.  I have 100's of jazz records that are 40-60 years old and still sound fresh and exciting to my ears.  Someone quick name me any artist, from the last 5 years, that you'll enjoy in the year 2043?

    I do believe that women like jazz...they just don't like avant-garde/free jazz.

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  50. Bartleby says

    Thank you for your kind comments Davis and contribution to our discussion.

    Regarding hype and marketing jazz, here what Robert Hurwitz wrote in the New York Times: "Bach and Ellington, No Hype Needed"
    "Those of us in the record business who are not involved with mainstream pop music have always been faced with the challenge of expanding the audience for the less commercially oriented forms, like jazz or classical or contemporary music. People in the classical business may see a new Brahms Symphony No. 2 come out and be discouraged by sales of only 5,000 in the first year, but with about 200 recordings of that piece available, hundreds of thousands are sold each year. While aspects of the business may be a failure, Brahms's art certainly is not."

    The article dates from 2001 but I think it's still true in part. (full article here)

    Incidentally if you doubt that girls don't like avant-garde or free jazz, just visit Dimitra's blog. You'll be surprised.

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  51. superreggie says

    I was going to comment on how ridiculous saying you don't like a particular genre is. That it is always the product of musical ignorance, but I realised it's ripe for a new thread

    http://mog.com/blog_post/view/167852#comment-630865

    there are no bad genres!

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  52. Bartleby says

    Thank you superreggie for allowing me to hijack your post!

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  53. Dzendvokh says

    I have missed some great posts and discussions.... truly sorry about that... just trying to do a bit of catch up.....you are on the top of my list Michael.

    Not really going to add anything accept that I feel for your friend...must be hard that way  ;-)

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  54. superreggie says

    for me it all starts and ends with

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHEOJHoekPc

    And if you don't like it, get off the bus!

    Permalink posted 06/16/2008
  55. Bartleby says

    Not to worry, Nick. It's always a pleasure to peruse your posts. So I'm really looking forward to the next batch. Oh, it's good to have you back.

    Superreggie: I'm running afer the bus with Django in tail ;)
    "I Can't Give Anything But Love" (McHugh-Fields)

    Permalink posted 06/17/2008
  56. ZenPop says

    This is a fantastic post, B!

    When I used to work in record stores, I used to joke with my coworkers that every time I heard jazz I got hungry. (in fact, it was probably because the "jazz guy" at the store would always get the turntable around lunchtime...)

    I'm not as up on jazz as I should be and have started taking baby step to remedy this... (just bought Louis Armstrong's "The Complete Hot Five and Hot Seven Recordings" boxset... I'm on my way.)

    Thanks for the excellent post!

    Permalink posted 06/17/2008
  57. Bartleby says

    "The Complete Hot Five and Hot Seven Recordings" boxset, huh? Now, I'm jealous.

    (Thank you very much for your very kind comments. This post far being "fantastic" could have done with one of your beautiful posters ;)

    Permalink posted 06/17/2008

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